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     NED won NT | [q]2011-10-11 08:10
SlaYeravatar
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I want to congratulate NED nice pwning all clans at this tourney. Im not mad that We werent playing in final because Finland got pwned like We did, They got the same power like We do(FIN-POL). This tournament shows how helpless youre without TS/Skype, especially in small levels. Next time We(POL) will use it, but it would be better if mappoll will be more fair for everyone, I mean We shouldnt add levels like GW to 3v3 tourney. Some nations won't use TS/Skype, for example Czech Republic. And levels for mappoll should be bigger, not small like BBswing or GW. Anyway NED deserve for winning so gj.
Replies
Vegito
CC
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#1 | [q]2011-10-11 10:50
bbswing and GW indeed are small though they work well if you've got a smooth working team which NL had. That is indeed cause of teamspeak but also Sasik hadn't played in GW in ages as it seemed. TS helps with predicting where the enemy goes and getting the flagcarrier trapped with another teammate quickly, especially in smaller levels. That's true.
I don't say small levels are worse for 3v3s (probably cause they work so well for me), however I have noticed other teams starting to dislike the smaller levels cause of the bigger skill differences there.
Iustyn
CC
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#2 | [q]2011-10-11 11:22
nl didnt win the nt
cc did it
GJ CC!u showed us what teamplay is!
congratz!
Vegito
CC
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#3 | [q]2011-10-11 15:42
Not only CC did win, MS showed nice dedication too and was there for all group matches - remember we only played few group matches with the CC alpha trio
SlaYer
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#4 | [q]2011-10-11 16:31
Hehe ye MS helped too, but some CW screens are funny, people keep insulting MS after the game, look XD


JJ2WC cc vs cdf


nt fin vs ned

(This post has been helpful to 1 of the forumers.)
snzspeed
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#5 | [q]2011-10-11 18:30
I said that but really i have nothing against anyone, i just think it would be better to have a smaller/better suited mappool for tourmanent like this. not levels like GW/Swing, if i remember my insult was related to the fact i noticed how bad gw is in 3v3 emo (its extremely hard to regain control and such)
SlaYer
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#6 | [q]2011-10-11 18:34
I agree, mappool wasn't considered very well.
Grytolle
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JJnet admin
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#7 | [q]2011-10-11 19:25
I don't get what you have against GW. It's basically the same thing as sbv2, but with bases that are less impossible to approach. It's definitely one of the easier maps to regain control in, because it's possible to move the c, and because you can get power ups "by accident" when you're r. BBswing is indeed a bit too easy to control, though. Basically because it's so effective to camp the seek PU. On the other hand, the level having 2 carrots does improve things slightly. It's actually easier to regain control in a small level because you're closer to base when you die: you can run at the enemy more and kill him off to hopefully have someone capture with 3. The fact that there is no seek PU in GW goes a long way too.

Having played in Swestland this tournament, I know a fair deal about trying to regain control because we were more often than not the weaker team. The worst levels in that respect are in my opinion: distopia, MS, sbv2 and maybe WW. As you can see, the level size definitely isn't the decisive factor, but the presence of an easily camped seekPU and/or bases that are pretty much impossible to approach withhout getting hit if they are camped. (WW has good bases, but camping the power-up is very effective for rolling up a good domination streak).

I'm quite sure that the main reason that teams lost to the Netherlands is that the Dutch team has trained a lot together, being one of CC's more common warteam constellations. Other teams, on the other hand, consisted of more or less random collections of players. The other top clans: GpW and t3 didn't really participate "as a clan". Poland could possibly have reaped some advantages by going for a complete VS-team, but since VS wasn't that inactive playing ladders before the tournament, that option didn't really exist. What I'm saying is that NED would have kicked everyone's asses without TS too, because we're almost as good at communicating everything we need to get communicated in typing. For instance, if I type "E1 DOWN" and "S3" after someone recaps on GW, I can be quite sure that Vegito, Chiyu or Faw will kill the enemy off. But sure, if you haven't starting the newest commands "ST", "BT" et c, and level specific commands like "DOWN", then sure, you'll probably have a bigger comparative disadvantage vs. TSers than I do. In my opinion you guys should 1) expand your teamchat command inventory 2) start experimenting with voicecom, because it's a lot more fun to hear your friends and talk to them during breaks

The real problem with playing vs. NED is that they both communicate better and know eachother better than your newly formed team, and that they are quite a bit stronger than other teams. Fawful and Vegito are very dominating players, and Chiyu both e-kills, scores a lot and likes to defend. He's a bit predictable at times, but in such a strong team, that's mostly an advantage because your teammates will know even more easily what is going on.

My guess is that Finland and Swestland are the teams that benefited the most from using voicecom in this tournament. If I hadn't been able to shout very specific instructions to Grytmastern/DZ/Djazz we would probably have lost a lot more. Finland on the other hand consisted of 3/4 really good players who are relatively close friends (shy people suck with TS), but aren't that used to playing in team with oneanother. TS definitely helps in that case too, because it takes less time to reach a sufficient level of communication effectivity.

The reason why you guys have issues with the smaller maps is probably that they are more intense, meaning that any advantage that is spread evenly across the enemy team will be felt more deeply. It's a clear case of getting traumatized by Dutch pwn in the level that the Dutch team chose emo

Anyway, it's time to start discussing the merits of popular levels, since after VS vs. GpW the ladder is quite likely to end. We're more intent on extending the map pool than on reducing it, though. How about I start a separate thread for each current mappool level (let's say from the ladder, JJ2WC and JJ2NT) along with a list of criteria to consider (mostly as food for thought ofc), so we can discuss it properly? That'll make a good example for people who want to suggest completely new levels.


Finally: lol sr xdddd



Edit: I didn't really like the way the mappool was composed either. It seemed kind of lazy to just pick the mappool from the last edition and make one change (not paying any attention to experiences in other tournaments)
Edit 2: I realize that there are some contradictions between the beginning and the end of my post. The post isn't very thought through xD
(This post has been helpful to 1 of the forumers.)
Iustyn
CC
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#8 | [q]2011-10-11 20:13
HOLY GEEZUS GRY
that is too much to read
Vegito
CC
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#9 | [q]2011-10-11 20:25
It has some valid points though, lol.
Grytolle
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JJnet admin
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#10 | [q]2011-10-11 20:29
Short version for Iustyn:

-Imo GW is one of the easier levels to regain control in. Distopia, MS, sbv2 and maybe WW are worse.
-NL won because the players have a lot of experience together and because they simply are stronger than the other teams
-Finland and Swestland probably gained more thanks to TS than NL. Swestland would get pwned completely without it, and Finland managed to get their teamplay together in a short period of time thanks to it, eventhough they come from different clans.
-The ladder season might end soon, so we should start discussing level changes.
-Lol@SR's screens

Chiyu
CC
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#11 | [q]2011-10-11 22:01
Hmm, to be fair, I take back what I said about MS earlier after CC vs CDF. Throughout the course of this tournament, I found out that he's rather nice and cooperative really emo. Even though against the more difficult opponents we decided to play it safe by using our infamous CC alpha team, he nevertheless showed great dedication on his part and was a reliable back-up. He respected our decisions too and did not "demand" to play at all like certain others *cough*anakin*cough* would have done in the same situation, and I appreciate that.

And about the use of TS; yes, it helps (a lot). But voice communication doesn't turns noobs into pwners, it only improves the communication. It's true that our team has put a lot of emphasis on communication in teamgames, which makes our teamwork quite efficient, especially on levels like GW. Although our results during the tournament might indicate otherwise, GW was NOT a level that CC trained a lot - in fact, we hadn't given it much thought at all until other countries started picking the level against us (out of curiosity, why? emo). I don't think GW is that bad of a level for 3vs3s. It's rather balanced and straight-forward and I like that, and not as campy as SBv2/Zaitox. It's just one of those levels where voice communication can really make a difference, but if CC/NL can do that, I'm sure others can pull it off as well.

To those people who are still skeptical of voice communication, I would definitely recommend to give it a few tries. If both teams used teamspeak/skype it would definitely improve the quality of (team)games in general, because voice communication adds a lot of possibilities to your teamwork, adding to the strategic depth of the game. And it's a lot more fun too, especially when your teammates are good friends too (as is the case with my fellow warteam members emo).
Laro24
[CDF]
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#12 | [q]2011-10-11 22:25
Well its nice to see that CC and MS are getting along nice now. And yeah, voicechatting improves almost anything, teamplay, communication, fun, etc... emo


"It is amazing what can be accomplished when nobody cares about who gets the credit.” ~Robert Yates
MasterSven
[CDF]
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JJnet user
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#13 | [q]2011-10-11 23:44
Yay, I can finally acces jj.net again.
Eh SR, the DW screen was a misunderstanding, I didnt see anyone stopping the game, probably bcs I was so focussed. Nothing happened then, I dont get why you use that as an example.
When the mappool was being created, Lithium (Serbia) was still officially in charge.
Afiiko copied the last NT's mappool, then after a discussion on the forum it was commonly agreed to replace Apark. I decided to make a poll, which resulted in sbv2 being added to the mappool.
I then had to do most things myself and continue on the serbian framework. Lets not forget to give them credit for taking the initiative.
Later I got help from people who wanted to make this tournament a succes as well.
Grytolle played a big role and also tought me how to REC and bc.
The unconventional refs I recruited did a very nice job, Gjenka, Laro and Sue have proven to be reliable refs able to solve most problems. ( Sue made one mistake which was not entirely her fault, but it doesnt add up against her contribution to the tourney, She was ref the most matches of all!)
Also thnx to Toni for arranging matches to show the complete ranking.

I dont think Ill ever organise sth like this again, but of someone wants my advice about stuff like this you can always ask.

Btw thnx Veg Chiyu and Faw for making me a world champion emo
[GpW]Urbs
[GpW]
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#14 | [q]2011-10-11 23:46
gry, i would give you a +, but you have too many as it is.

Voice is good for people like me who suck at fast typing and usually get 1 while typing 3.
Not a problem for team NL.

I kinda hoped some1 would shock NL, but I knew it was a longshot. FIN and POL both trained like 2 months ago, but you have to reach the top form at the end.
For cc it was easy to keep up their form, cuz they're a well oiled machine.
HordY
CX
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JJnet user
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6
#15 | [q]2011-10-12 00:25
Btw thnx Veg Chiyu and Faw for making me a world champion.
Congratz for champion team but dont forget whos the only team that played tie with NED emo
Also *world champion* is a strong word, well maybe you are in jj2 but for me being a world champion is much bigger than that. I'd rather use that word when i become the best swimmer on the world instead the best team in jj2.
Iustyn
CC
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Posts: 373
24
#16 | [q]2011-10-12 06:53
that is better gry
emo
Toni
CC
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#17 | [q]2011-10-12 11:15
Quote:
Congratz for champion team but dont forget whos the only team that played tie with NED


Yeah, we were the ones who played that match. If there was someone stronger than artegor we could win that round emo. But also, NL didn't play with their best squad.
Vegito
CC
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JJnet user
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#18 | [q]2011-10-12 11:30
Idd, we played with Loon that round which proved to .. not be that good of an idea lol.
Anyway, Poland A tied in Semi versus our strongest squad so that's probably the best result for a team against us. But still, we'll see who's stronger Sunday then, Serbia or Poland A emo.