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     Vote for JJ2+ | [q]2013-12-02 00:08
cooba
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Go vote for JJ2+ as ModDB's Mod Of The Year! It certainly has been the mod of the year in our community, so why not!

emo emo


Jazz 2 Online
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ShakerNL
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#1 | [q]2013-12-03 14:51
No thanks, since BlurredD stopped developing it, it became only worse.


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cooba
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#2 | [q]2013-12-03 15:38
Yeah, I miss server crashing, ammo cheating, and JJM, too.


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ShakerNL
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#3 | [q]2013-12-03 23:13
Well, for example: I miss the /np command (I'm not the only one missing it) /multiversion off command (1.23 nonplussers keep trying to connect), the low detail mode shouldn't be messed with, and those bugfixes made many levels unplayable. (multiplayer wallclimb, and a bunch of tests for example) Yes, there still are game modes other than CTF.

I believe that mp3 support, anti ammo cheat and server crashing protection (anti ASD) were available in the 2010 release.


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Loon
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#4 | [q]2013-12-04 21:39
There is no need for the /np command.
When you double tab F9 you will see which music file is playing.
Just sayin'. Don't know if it bothers you.
ShakerNL
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#5 | [q]2013-12-04 22:05
I know about that. Some people like to use /np and look back later in the chatlog to see the music file. Now you have to write it down on some text file. It was easier emo "lazyism"


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ShakerNL
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#6 | [q]2013-12-04 22:08
Anyway, still not going to vote. Deal with it emo I'd probably vote if the voting would be a few months earlier.


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Lithium
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#7 | [q]2013-12-04 23:27
I don't want to get into the debate, but I do sometimes find myself typing /np even if I know I could just check the song file name with F9. Dunno, I think it'd still have a use. What do the others think?


I'm a jj.net/forum moderator - feel free to contact me if you have issues with the site or the forum.
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Treylina
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#8 | [q]2013-12-06 00:16
ShakerNL wrote:
Well, for example: I miss the /np command (I'm not the only one missing it) /multiversion off command (1.23 nonplussers keep trying to connect), the low detail mode shouldn't be messed with, and those bugfixes made many levels unplayable. (multiplayer wallclimb, and a bunch of tests for example) Yes, there still are game modes other than CTF.

I believe that mp3 support, anti ammo cheat and server crashing protection (anti ASD) were available in the 2010 release.

You do realise there's different types of ammo cheating and server crashing, right? For example, unlimited ammo cheating wasn't detectable in the old plus.

As much as I do miss the low detail, it would often cause crashing between cycles, which was annoying. The way it works now is in the meantime.


[19:55:50] VLAD8: YOU BITCH
[19:56:24] VLAD8: TREYLINA LETS BY FRIENDS

It's been almost 3 years and JJ.net STILL hasn't fixed the freaking cookies. No wonder hardly anyone posts here anymore.
ShakerNL
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#9 | [q]2013-12-06 01:25
Yes, of course it's nice that some bugs and cheats are fixed. I'm talking about the extra bugs that get added in the new releases. The nice dev team doesn't really know how to properly test things either. Since there had to be a quick fix a week later. And it's not the first time, is it? emo


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cooba
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#10 | [q]2013-12-06 10:14
ShakerNL wrote:
The nice dev team doesn't really know how to properly test things either.

LOL. You really have no idea what you're talking about.
Treylina wrote:
The way it works now is in the meantime.

No, it isn't.


Jazz 2 Online
ShakerNL
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#11 | [q]2013-12-06 19:08
I know what I'm talking about. Dev team gives people JJ2+, people don't like it, Dev team has to fix the mess so people will like it and vote for jj2+ on that site. So get back to work! emo emo


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SirEmentaler
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#12 | [q]2013-12-07 12:36
Your posts are insulting.

ShakerNL wrote:
Well, for example: I miss the /np command (I'm not the only one missing it)

ShakerNL wrote:
Some people like to use /np and look back later in the chatlog to see the music file. Now you have to write it down on some text file. It was easier

As mentioned previously, it was removed as a consequence of adding the name of the music file in the F9F9 list, however we're considering adding it along with tileset file name between the information displayed in chatlog at the beginning of each level.

ShakerNL wrote:
/multiversion off command (1.23 nonplussers keep trying to connect)

However, it would be bad to disallow Plus users to join when there is no reason to. Removing the ability to disallow multiversion has more upsides than downsides. Additionally, in your case, the problem is on your side; convert your levels to 1.23 and you will not be getting any trouble.

ShakerNL wrote:
the low detail mode shouldn't be messed with

Yes it should because it was working wrong. The current behavior of low detail mode makes all well designed levels look either better than they used to or equally well in low detail mode. Another of its advantages is disabling the ability to cheat in order to find hidden paths and secrets or find one's way in a blind maze. Hardly any level designer ever intended you to be able to see your way in a blind maze, therefore fixing low detail means disabling a cheap cheat. If it bothers you a blind maze became nearly impossible to complete because of the low detail fix, maybe it's time to admit the level in question is badly designed and should not be on your level list.

ShakerNL wrote:
those bugfixes made many levels unplayable. (multiplayer wallclimb, and a bunch of tests for example) Yes, there still are game modes other than CTF.

Wallclimb is a bug and it's difficult to care if it's fixed as long as it works where necessary (Spaz filters). The fact it worked in the first place was a consequence of another JJ2 bug. I recall restoring wallclimb is there somewhere on our issue list but far from top priority. Meanwhile, the fact we were breaking tests that were based on bugs was completely acknowledged and intended. Similarly, we broke some CTF and other levels that were based on bugs. Do you see any CTF players complaining? No? That's because they either accepted the loss or use scripts to restore the initial gameplay of the level. See This Level Is Untitled for the sake of an example. The final sentence in that quote is simply insulting; you must be confusing us with Clan Ladder players. Approximately 6% of members of our development team are typical Clan Ladder players. About 50% represent JDC views. We play more game modes than you do.

ShakerNL wrote:
I believe that mp3 support, anti ammo cheat and server crashing protection (anti ASD) were available in the 2010 release.

Sure there were fixes of ammo cheats and server crashes in the past, duh. Currently no way of crashing a JJ2+ server is known however, while script kiddies can easily crash 2010 release servers. Because of a bug generated by BlurredD, imagine that. Mentioning mp3 support is out of place because it's not what cooba meant.

ShakerNL wrote:
The nice dev team doesn't really know how to properly test things either. Since there had to be a quick fix a week later. And it's not the first time, is it?

cooba wrote:
LOL. You really have no idea what you're talking about.

ShakerNL wrote:
I know what I'm talking about. Dev team gives people JJ2+, people don't like it, Dev team has to fix the mess so people will like it and vote for jj2+ on that site. So get back to work!

No you don't. First off, the squad of the Plus beta-testing team never lost members afaict. It only grew. This includes the times when BlurredD was in charge. This means some of us are more experienced than others but we know how to test things - or, at least, no less than in the past. But not everything can be potentially found; some of the bugs reported after the latest release still cannot be reproduced by any development team member. If you want us to test Plus releases on multiple operating systems with various hardware and register settings, you can sponsor us. I'll post a PayPal account where you can send money to so we can buy necessary computer components and software and then I promise we'll test each version of JJ2+ thoroughly. If not, we're still going to use the community to do as much as test JJ2+ for us. Yes, it's not the first time a quick fix within a week after a release takes place. The first time was in April 9, 2008. Another time in April 10, 2009. Another in April 8, 2010. How about you show some respect and at least read version history before you throw false accusations that it only started happening after handing out the project to the current development team? As to "get back to work", saying that is nothing else than ungrateful towards people who, out of pure good will, allow you to use a beta version of a project they create.


Vegito
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#13 | [q]2013-12-07 15:38
I guess some people just feel that JJ2+ has become a personal project for the JJ2+ dev team, and that the team did not listen to the (competetive) community enough anymore. I don't necessarily say that's my feeling and I voted anyway emo.
(This post has been helpful to 1 of the forumers.)
ShakerNL
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#14 | [q]2013-12-07 17:48
+1 for Vegito! I'm sorry if my posts look insulting and disrespectful. But you gotta keep the community happy if you want them to vote. emo


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cooba
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#15 | [q]2013-12-07 18:08
Vegito wrote:
I guess some people just feel that JJ2+ has become a personal project for the JJ2+ dev team, and that the team did not listen to the (competetive) community enough anymore.

That's funny, since a massive majority of the changelog is feature requests from the community. We are open to feedback 24/7 but from what I can tell, people would rather complain here than request something on the JCF. And also that complaining about mouseaim is easier than finding the command disabling it in the readme.

So unless somebody specifically lists out reasonable points of contention in JJ2+, y'all will have to deal with it since version 5.0 is scheduled to come out this Christmas. B-)


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Vegito
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#16 | [q]2013-12-07 19:39
I don't have much to complain about at all as the last hotfix made playing possible for me again, it fixed all the problems I had. If the next version is coming out soon, could you *please* make /cstop 3 seconds or perhaps make /cstop variable?
SirEmentaler
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#17 | [q]2013-12-08 15:18
We had discussed that internally before and came to conclusion this wouldn't significantly improve anything about JJ2+ but we're interested in hearing argumentation that would prove us wrong.


(This post has been helpful to 1 of the forumers.)
Vegito
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#18 | [q]2013-12-08 16:07
Making everybody happy cause stopping a (competitive) game will be faster (e.g. 3 seconds). 5 seconds is just too long for competitive games so changing it would give the whole competitive scene a very useful (changeable) command. I don't know the language jj2+ is programmed in nor I know the code but making something variable isn't that much work either, or is it?

Edit:

Oh right, and this was far from the first time this was suggested (by more players, as well). So I guess you can count this one to the (I'm guessing) "dev team not listening to something the majority of the online players want or would find useful"
(Don't consider it a complaint, it was just an observation)
Toni
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#19 | [q]2013-12-08 16:15
If you can't agree on cstop time, why don't you simple add /cstoptime [number] where we can choose how many seconds will it be?

Quote:
cooba: Don't expect /cstop to last 3 seconds either
Grytolle
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#20 | [q]2013-12-08 19:06
Guys... The plus team is much better than it ever has been before. It's now a true team effort by a number of very dedicated developers and a bunch of possibly even more dedicated beta testers. That's a giant leap forward compared to the past where your only chance of getting a feature in was a) to bug blur a lot b) code it yourself and hope that blur would include it.

Admittedly, Violet who is/was doing most of the development seems to have more interest in non-CTF game modes, and especially single player, but that's a good thing considering how neglected those aspects were in JJ2+ in the past, but he has always been very quick in addressing bugs that break multiplayer/CTF and other issues of importance to us over here (crashing, anti-cheating, ...). Furthermore Sir Ementaler and zepect are both very easy to get hold of and very responsive to our wishes.

The only reasonable criticism of their workings, as I see it, is that they haven't put a gagging order on cooba yet in favour of letting Sir Ementaler do all the talking here. But apart from such slight public relations issues, it is quite a remarkable team.

As to why the countdown for /cstop (and perhaps /cstart) isn't adjustable yet, and why it was such a great idea to make ammo from boxes despawn, I am not sure, but please, have some perspective! The active plus team is spending a lot of time on improving your gaming experience and they have introduced a ton of new, awesome features, and only caused minor problems in the process.


Edit: As I can still follow their progress closely even though I don't contribute much myself, I can also tell you that they monitor the threads on JCF where normal users can report bugs or express their wishes very closely, and if you take a look at those threads, you will find that they try to approach every user personally who can't get JJ2+ to run properly. What more in terms of great service can you expect from a team of volunteers?
(This post has been helpful to 1 of the forumers.)
Vegito
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#21 | [q]2013-12-08 20:08
If this was directed to me as well: I am not complaining, I just expressed a wish and other than that I am happy with how things generally go and voted. The quick hotfix release improved all the bugs I experienced with the initial release *somehow* (Not smooth movement of everyone all the time in multiplayer, I have no idea why or how it got fixed in the hotfix as I didn't even mention the bug at the JCF). But I'm happy it got fixed either way and enjoy jj2 (plus) as it is.
zepect
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#22 | [q]2013-12-08 21:48
For those who don't like the new plus and say that it was better when BlurredD developed it: don't use the new plus, keep using 3.0 (it's still available to download on J2O). The plus version today would be 3.0 if it wasn't continued by the plus team. Don't like that Camel servers are hosted with a newer version and some of them don't allow 3.0? Make your own servers with 3.0. Don't like that it's crashable? Fix it yourself. And yet you keep using the new version.
wKtK
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#23 | [q]2013-12-08 23:05
Complaining, complaining.

I am happy that people are still willing to invest free time in jj2. Even if it would've been the 'personal project' of the dev team, they have the source and are putting their time in it, so wtf are you complaining about? Go make your own plus, you'll learn a lot of useful skills that will surely bring your consuming life to the next producing step. Have fun.

I do partly agree on /np and /multiversion. While the music is indeed listed in the F9 info stuff, it won't hurt to have the command there to avoid breaking peoples workflow. As for the multiversion, turn that off by default. However, give people the choice to enable it if they want it on their servers. I can completely understand official servers (CD) wanting to enforce the newest patches/fixes made to plus.

Anyway, gj plus team, while I'm kinda inactive I keep checking here and occasionally on JCF, and if it means anything to you: You have my full support.

Gry wrote:
What more in terms of great service can you expect from a team of volunteers?

Easy. They should make everyone a personal version of plus, with all that persons wishes. All the versions should be compatible, and be kept up to date. Did I mention the deadline is 1 day? Hurry up, get back to work you lazy plusdevs! emo


Nostalgia warning, well, at least if you're one of those ppl...
ShakerNL
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#24 | [q]2013-12-09 00:09
It's so easy to tell people not to use the latest version of plus. I'm just saying that I'm not going to vote. ElecTRon is already using the old version of plus on his server, and I'm considering of doing the same with my servers if the xmas release will break more levels like the latest release did. Yes, I do like the fixes the releases bring, but are they worth the new bugs/glitches? We'll see emo


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Toni
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#25 | [q]2013-12-09 19:22
Grytolle wrote:
The only reasonable criticism of their workings, as I see it, is that they haven't put a gagging order on cooba yet in favour of letting Sir Ementaler do all the talking here. But apart from such slight public relations issues, it is quite a remarkable team.


The only thing I am complaining related to plus is this. You all did a great job, and I voted for you. Keep working!
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