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«Latest posts» «Latest threads» «Search» «User CP»

  Page: 1 2
Poll
Pepper or fireaball?
Pepper default, fireball allowed
bb vote bb bb
9 (30%)

Pepper only
bb vote bb bb
4 (13%)

Fireball only
bb vote bb bb
2 (7%)

Fireball default, pepper allowed
bb vote bb bb
7 (23%)

m0ti
bb vote bb bb
8 (27%)

Votes: 30
     Fireball | [q] 2013-01-31 00:15
Grytolleavatar
JJnet admin
Posts: 847
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Should this ladder season be played with fireball or pepper spray? Discuss and vote!
Replies
Sean
aEs
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JJnet user
Posts: 250
29
#1 | [q]2013-01-31 06:23
I haven't had time to properly play around with the fireball's physics and see how it could meaningfully affect gameplay, but my gut feeling is that since pepper's physics are quite unique and can be applicable depending on the level design, it should be pepper default with fireball allowed on specified levels. Perhaps any level with pepper spray ammo should be individually discussed over whether it should have fireball allowed or not?

For a start I'd have to say AYB would have to keep pepper spray entirely, as its fast movement and long reach are extremely helpful in the long corridors design the level has. As for Distopia, the spread of the RFs probably works better for the open design, so fireball could be permitted (and possibly encouraged).


*insert inane collection of quotes here*
SirEmentaler
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#2 | [q]2013-01-31 08:01
Unlike pepper spray and electro-blaster, fireball always does 2 hearts of damage when powered up. As such, since you seem to be ready to change gameplay of levels, another question that should be asked is whether '/strongpowerups on' should or can be used.
Lithium
aEs
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JJnet user
Posts: 1758
107
#3 | [q]2013-01-31 08:21
I'd say we should use fireball as the default choice, with the possibility of using regular pepper if the teams agree. Fireball is a much better weapon and would be an excellent gameplay addition.

In that case, I think /strongpowerups should stay off. Fireball would deal two damage when powered up by default, but powered up electroblaster could prove to be rather overpowered.


We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
Plumbe
-t3>
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JJnet user
Posts: 54
4
#4 | [q]2013-01-31 13:47
I suggest we try out fireball as the default weapon and pepper if any player disagrees
Toni
CC
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JJnet user
Posts: 472
36
#5 | [q]2013-01-31 13:55
I already said. Pepper default, fireball allowed.

You're trying to change gameplay in most of levels, especially in WW, JE and AYB. Everyone will camp at pepper in WW, what makes getting C very hard.

If you allow it by default, I suggest you to edit levels and place more/less pepper ammo and move PU somewhere else - what will change the gameplay again.
Vegito
CC
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Posts: 398
31
#6 | [q]2013-01-31 14:10
I wouldn't mind trying out fireball but I will miss 'airhitting' people in distopia with pepper emo.
Hakum †
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0
#7 | [q]2013-01-31 14:15
Fireball is cool :3
Lithium
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107
#8 | [q]2013-01-31 16:23
Vegito wrote:
I wouldn't mind trying out fireball but I will miss 'airhitting' people in distopia with pepper emo.


Hehe emo

Well, fireball is a nice addition to gameplay in Distopia. Haven't tested it out in WW, but I'm sure it's not that serious as you claim, Toni.


We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
Ragnarok
CX
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Posts: 151
24
#9 | [q]2013-01-31 18:20
Right, I'm gonna put a detailed analysis behind my vote, possibly just to help me decide, or you guys, and also I like writing essays.

So in simple terms, what is the fireball gun, what does it do? Well, according to my small testing, it's a fast gun, that can also shoot rapidly upwards with quite good reach, not as fast as gun8 though. Also, it shoots through destruct scenery and powerups, meaning the shot can hit multiple objects. However when powered up, this changes, and it practically becomes the blaster powerup, except without unlimited ammo. So losing gun8, means we might lose chasing capabilities (in cases where fireball is powered in various levels which I'll go over later), however it means we might have new tactics available in the levels. Gun8 wasn't really used much, and fireball might give a noticable change to the gameplay. So let's analyse the levels we currently play to help us get a better view of how it will affect?

Semi: No gun8, no difference.
JE: Some gun8 and no powerup, upon testing it a bit, it looks like there won't be much of a gameplay difference since there aren't many places to tactically shoot the fireball up, and gun8 wasn't really used other than for chasing at the top, which fireball can do too. No real difference.
BBlair: No gun8, no difference.
BBSwing: No gun8, no difference.
GW: Gun8 near bases, but no powerup. This means we have a new tactic in this level (similar to guarding by shooting bouncers upwards in various sections of the slopey areas of the level). Also, there are no real chasing corridors for gun8 to really have been useful here, so I believe fireball greatly enhances gameplay in this level.
Epitome: Some gun8, no powerup again. Quite a few tactics made possible with this by shooting upwards again. It adds decent combat capabilities to the horizontal sections of the level as opposed to gun8. Enhances gameplay again in my opinion.
Distopia: Some gun8, and the powerup. This level can and will be quite altered in gameplay from the powerup. There aren't many areas to shoot up, but notably horizontal guarding around the seeker powerup and bouncer powerup might be made easier if lacking seekers. Chasing along the top of the level isn't as potent with fireball instead of gun8. Adding the powerup also, gives effectively limited shots of powered blaster. Adding a third powerup to this level might change things. Fireball powerup isn't necessarily strong in this situation though, since it's against two much more superpowered powerups being seeker and bouncer. It does affect this level a lot, however not too drastically. I do think it's not a very good enhancement to the gameplay though and could be avoided in this level.
Wicked Wood: No gun8, but the powerup next to the carrot. In this level, it's pretty much just a limited blaster powerup given that there is no actual gun8 ammo at all. I've always thought this level was about supposedly controlling the powerups, giving a fourth powerup to control might change the dynamic, but not in a way I'd care about because the powerups that it is against are already much more powerful than fireball. I don't really have an opinion on how it changes this level.
Gauntlet: No gun8, no difference.
Super: No gun8, no difference.
All Your Base: Some gun8, and the powerup; I don't really like the change here. I am a huge fan of chasing across the top of the level with gun8, and there aren't many enhancing features to the gameplay with fireball in this level: not to mention it changes the nature of it being a level with two powerups to one with three! It does remove the chasing with gun8 element if powered up, but I guess you can still use RF, it's just something I didn't do in the past. Perhaps it's not really a bad thing, I just don't really care for it here.
Diamondus Warzone: No gun8, no difference.
SBv2: No gun8, no difference.
SILWI: Some gun8, no powerup. Vertical guarding with fireball becomes more prevalently possible in both bases here, but no real changes to the gameplay otherwise, maybe shooting on bases will be different a bit, but not drastically. Enhancement to gameplay imo.
COTS: No gun8, no difference.
Zaitox: Some gun8, no powerup. The differences are minimal, but do allow for easier camping at the base, but nothing that wasn't possible with seekers already. Gun8 wasn't really used for chasing here, so really little difference here.
DoS: No gun8, no difference.
Atom Heart: Some gun8, no powerup. The uses here are very obvious and aren't worth explaining, but I do like it a lot for this level. It makes areas somewhat more campy, in a way that I do like.
NBlast: Some gun8, no powerup, the gun isn't in high amounts in this level, meaning it probably won't be used much. No notable difference here.
Frontier Falls: No gun8, no difference.
Crystalline: No gun8, no difference.
Trigelateral: No gun8, no difference.
TCSv3: No gun8, no difference.
This level is untitled: Some gun8, no powerup. No real difference to gameplay, maybe easier to block off some narrow vertical passageways but no real difference.

So all in all, what does fireball do for us? It changes some of the levels a bit in very good ways, such as GW, and in some levels it doesn't really do much. Personally I think it could be fun to allow in games, though I wouldn't really care if it wasn't there, till we start designing newer levels around the powerup where it may be more useful. For now, I'd say do add it though, as it enhances gameplay in several levels.

What else? Well, not many of you guys really used the old gun8 anyway, so maybe it is for the better. Some may argue it 'changes the game' meaning the best players can't be the best anymore. Well, that's not really what makes you the best players, I think better players could adapt to such a 'change' and therefore I think it's a good choice to keep the fireball over the old gun8. Thank you and goodbye!
(This post has been helpful to 1 of the forumers.)
Toni
CC
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Posts: 472
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#10 | [q]2013-01-31 20:38
Distopia: I use pepper to shoot diagonally when I am under seeker and someone camps without ammo to get it.

WW: bad placement of PU if it's gonna be a Fireball PU.

AYB: when you spawn at right side of level, at right base, if you go up, you can chase with pepper before getting RF PU. If you're not at that side, you can chase with RF. It's already some advantage. Now, if you allow fireball there it will make even more advantage to RF's side. You don't have anything to spam so fast when you spawn at right side of level.

SILWI: I use it to shoot diagonally, especially at bases. Most knows that it's my favorite level for 3v3, and those know that I use a lot of pepper there when I D/S/R.

Zaitox: to be honest, I don't play there very often, won't talk anything about it.

Atom Heart: ^

NBlast: ^^

This level is untitled: ^^^

I think there are enough arguments to make a proper decision: allow fireball, but pepper stays as default, as it used to be.
King
CX
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JJnet user
Posts: 222
35
#11 | [q]2013-01-31 22:19
so far most change of this "fireball gun" would be definietly in disto and ww, for adding another powerup. Personally i find fireball gun to be much more useful than pepper. I mean lets be honest, when someone asks "how many pu's are there in disto" 90% of people would say "2". i dont think it will be sucha drastic change (eventho it is a big change) since its not really that powerfull ammo (i was actually smart enough to notice its limited blaster). What i didnt notice,untill rag told me ofc, is that non pu shoots faster than pu. Well anywaysi dont think its a bad idea, as toni claims it to be, its not that powerfull powerup, it just can provide newcomers a little more chance of winning due to their random placements. In ayb its a bit unlikely that you will go up:
1. getting seek pu is a wiser decision in most cases(even tho,unless you time it, you're unlikely to get seeks either.. especially in 3 vs 3)
2. In a small map like ayb, you're bound to be forced to get r once you spawned
3. you can get seekers while going r since the bottom path is the shortest one
4. Even if you decide to go up, there will be (very likely) someone at the top spamming ammo at the slow spawning C and will randomly take RF (happens very often)

i speak from 2 vs 2 and (mostly) 3 vs 3 expirience, i have no idea how duels work there.
Not to mention ayb is slowly becoming completely "unplayed"

As for ww well, with 3 strong powerups like seeks bnc and toast (each plays a very important role in certain areas) its highly unlikely for it to make a big difference especially since its like having a limited "blaster pu". I'd use this powerup when going r, its a nice way to pwn players being S if you're na, or if w8ting for other powerups. I dont see any other use of it atm, but i havent even yet had a chance to properly play with it.

in disto i do kinda agree il miss pepper a bit since i always picked more pepper than RF, becuz theyr placed exactly in the running paths so its a nice way to pwn ppl while chasing at the top. Still adding a 3rd pu there could prove very usefull.

Finally, this is all spoken in theory,as i've said, i havent yet put any of this into practise. I guess a few games have to be played first before saying anything for certain. But i do know this. Pepper was barely used, and in most lvls some consider it a nuisance becuz when you pick it up it changes to it and it messes up your hunting (i think there's a program that disables ammo changing?i remmber dz sending it once to me but didnt work properly or something..) i saw a lot of people complain about it "fucking gun8" (mostly saw in JE)


Player: Air!
Air: ?
i:m
CX
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JJnet user
Posts: 264
46
#12 | [q]2013-01-31 23:09
i like fireball mostly because its something new. peppers kinda sucked, kinda. kinda kinda. kinda. actually i mean, it wasnt used quite often. i find fireball cooler. it isnt that dangerous gun anyway. i think fireball will bring something new to jazz jackrabbit 2 the secret files, jazz jackrabbit 2. games arent going to look that uniformly as they used to, at least in the immediate future. i dont like how dontyouwantmebabyCC kvetches about a gun. why cant he just get used to it? why doesnt he want to feel the new taste of levels gameplay? especially that its not that much special??? i do not understand. i do not. i dont. emo fireball asks toni: dont you want me baby?
(This post has been helpful to 2 of the forumers.)
Toni
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#13 | [q]2013-01-31 23:25
---- off emomer
i:m
CX
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#14 | [q]2013-01-31 23:27
why so offensive? i do not spam. i dont have you spam in my pc;p
King
CX
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#15 | [q]2013-01-31 23:31
Toni wrote:
---- off emomer


I remember lithium throwing cake at me for swearing \o/ cake \o/


Player: Air!
Air: ?
i:m
CX
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#16 | [q]2013-01-31 23:33
he did not swear. he used a censorship
Lithium
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#17 | [q]2013-02-01 00:18
i:m wrote:
i like fireball mostly because its something new. peppers kinda sucked, kinda. kinda kinda. kinda. actually i mean, it wasnt used quite often. i find fireball cooler. it isnt that dangerous gun anyway. i think fireball will bring something new to jazz jackrabbit 2 the secret files, jazz jackrabbit 2. games arent going to look that uniformly as they used to, at least in the immediate future. i dont like how dontyouwantmebabyCC kvetches about a gun. why cant he just get used to it? why doesnt he want to feel the new taste of levels gameplay? especially that its not that much special??? i do not understand. i do not. i dont. emo fireball asks toni: dont you want me baby?


Were you referencing something? emo

Toni wrote:
---- off emomer


There was no spam.

King wrote:
I remember lithium throwing cake at me for swearing \o/ cake \o/


i:m wrote:
he did not swear. he used a censorship


Moti is right, so no cake for you this time emo




We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
i:m
CX
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JJnet user
Posts: 264
46
#18 | [q]2013-02-01 00:50
yes
(This post has been helpful to 1 of the forumers.)
MasterSven
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#19 | [q]2013-02-01 10:21
Maybe we should allow laser shield too...
(This post has been helpful to 1 of the forumers.)
cooba
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#20 | [q]2013-02-01 12:01
The laser shield cannot be used in MP, so that's a bad hyperbole


Jazz 2 Online
http://www.jazz2online.com
Toni
CC
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#21 | [q]2013-02-01 12:02
Can't wait for new plus. I hope they will make 2 more characters, one will have copter ears, double jump, side kick and upper cut, and another one will have all that plus some faster movement but slower falling - to keep everything balanced. Then you could try to change colors of notification text, make new gun what replaces TNT PU, and then after all, make invisible C, hidden somewhere in levels, visible only in JCS, so you have to learn a level by using JCS. Maybe changing shortcuts for ammo from numbers to letters.

(Already said, coders good job. I told this to ones who want fireball instead of pepper in future.)
cooba
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#22 | [q]2013-02-01 12:16
All the feedback considered, I was going to ask you (since this is probably the best place to ask, right now) all: "How does everyone feel about upgrading the powered up fireball's speed and range?" But that may be a bit of a double edged sword, with Distopia and AYB benefitting from this change and WW (potentially) suffering from it.

Therefore, have another question: How does everyone feel about a setting where the Fireball PU would only act as a 50 ammo box?

Opinions only please, no passive-aggressive horseshit like in the few posts above.


Jazz 2 Online
http://www.jazz2online.com
MasterSven
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#23 | [q]2013-02-01 13:52
@Cooba: Before the update the fireball couldnt be used either.
Since I used the laser shield 10 years ago in multiplayer, Im sure that its possible.
Vivando
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#24 | [q]2013-02-01 13:53
I would prefer the upgraded fireball to have the same physics as normal ones, except 2dmg as it is now, of course.
Lithium
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#25 | [q]2013-02-01 14:24
cooba wrote:
All the feedback considered, I was going to ask you (since this is probably the best place to ask, right now) all: "How does everyone feel about upgrading the powered up fireball's speed and range?" But that may be a bit of a double edged sword, with Distopia and AYB benefitting from this change and WW (potentially) suffering from it.

Therefore, have another question: How does everyone feel about a setting where the Fireball PU would only act as a 50 ammo box?

Opinions only please, no passive-aggressive horseshit like in the few posts above.


I wouldn't mind either, though I'd prefer if the powered up fireball dealt 2 damage. It's all a matter of adapting to the changes; as Ragnarok said, it would show the value of "good" players, because it also takes skill to adapt to changes.


We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
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