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Match: [GpW] vs -t3>
» Summary « » Description « » Comments « » New comment «
Summary
flag Gurus of Proactive Warfare vs teNaciTy 3 flag
Type:Ladder
Referee:flag BlAcKeYe
Player amount:3v3
Date:2019-06-29 20:00
Score:9:11
Score details:The Dragon Eyrie -> 2:3, , The Dragon Eyrie -> 3:5, , Scrapyard -> 2:2, , Scrapyard -> 2:1
Demos:JJ2TV
Description
This was a clanwar.
-t3> gained 4 point.
[GpW] lost 2 points.

-t3> picked The Dragon Eyrie
[GpW] picked Scrapyard

BlAcKeYe/Hyperion was the referee.
Grytmastern was the broadcaster.
Ragnarok and King were commentators.

screenscreenscreenscreen
Playlog
Comments
[GpW]Urbs
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2019-06-30 12:14 
well played boys, shame that we seem to lose by such a close margin latelyemo
emo emo emo
ThunDer
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2019-06-30 01:23 
SJ was a hell of maniac at the end of round 3 emo
Good Game. Well played both teams.
Vivando
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2019-06-29 23:35 
Thanks for the games GpW! It was super exciting, fun and refreshing to get to play these unordinary maps for this clanwar. emo

For those who think that The Dragon Eyrie was a random pick by me, it wasn't the case. We trained it more than the other maps and everyone felt more or less confident about it. Certainly there could have been many worse picks at least. And you know, sometimes you don't want to be too predictable either.

Special thanks to ref, available broadcasters and commentators. The stream seems to have been very decent.

Edited: 2019-06-29 23:36 by Vivando
Jelly Jam
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2019-06-29 22:54 
Fun game. Fun maps. Great opponents.
Thanks for playing, good luck in the final and see you all next season.
Ragnarok
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2019-06-29 22:51 
sensational football guys and gals!

Edit: having relistened to the commentary, I think I downplayed some of the excellent moves that all 7 players made, so just to add, well played by everyone. It was a very entertaining match, and both sides brought us some sensational football!

Edited: 2019-06-30 03:43 by Ragnarok
A7med
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2019-06-22 13:20 
Lets get this bread emo
ThunDer
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2019-06-09 23:23 
you already have carrot farm in mappool emo
(P.S: xlmbut soon)
Loon
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2019-06-09 13:00 
"Anyway I suggest we form a council representing each significant active clan, consisting of Rag, CJ, Jelly and me."

omfg cc is active emo
k its solved
MasterSven
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2019-06-08 13:54 
I never said Rag did anything. Apparantly everyone thinks that 'Imo some levelmakers have been working for their own politics the most actually, which has given us one-day-fly maps' means that I said Rag tried to get Hermanos in the mappool. I wasn't saying that, I was giving examples of one day fly maps, not neccesarily (all of) the ones that got into the mappool due to their makers promoting them. My statement was VERY general and I am also VERY certain that these things did occur, Im just annoyed by some people who keep wanting to argue about nitty gritty details which are just tiny parts of a huge general thing I adressed. Anyway we have formed the council (Rag and me talked and we are fine too) so theres no issue anymore except for the fact that some people like to argue, which is why Im no longer going to respond, so please save yourself the effort. emo

Edited: 2019-06-08 13:55 by MasterSven
King
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2019-06-08 12:26 
Sven sweetie, please drop this ridiculous statements/assumptions/speculations of any kind that rag tried to do anything to push his own maps in.

Even if he is that corrupt, evil or whatever the hell not and attempted to force us to vote for his maps,all he'd accomplish is he'd have received a big ol' middle finger from each and every one of us.

We all voted for all the maps that we voted cause we liked the maps. That's it.

Rag made daybreak, Cx hated it. Rag made dos, most of Cx loved it. Rag made trig, Cx was neutral towards it for the most part.
MasterSven
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2019-06-08 12:07 
Well Veg, since you don't seem to have discord. I said one day fly maps LIKE ….. etc.
which doesnt neccesarily mean that all one day fly maps have been added in this way. However Rag not voting for his map also doesnt mean that he didnt try getting it in by lobbying for example. I would like to keep it in general terms though, just like my statement was. I never excluded myself from anything btw, we all prioritize our own agenda at some point.
Vegito
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2019-06-08 11:44 
MS:

"Imo some levelmakers have been working for their own politics the most actually, which has given us one-day-fly maps like [...] Los Pollos Hermanos [...]"

You quite clearly said Rag "is one of the levelmakers who works for his own politics to get his one-day-fly included", which was not true.

Anything you said after that, trying to defend yourself, even saying "Anyway these non-rational egoic reactions take us nowhere" makes you look worse.
Stop defending yourself when you clearly made a mistake, and especially stop trying to blame *others* for calling you out on a mistake you made yourself. It's ridiculous.

They are not to blame for a mistake you made, but you won't accept that. If you meant something else, you should have written something else. People react to what you write, not what you meant to write.
ThunDer
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2019-06-07 14:25 
Yeah this gotta be exciting m8! I can't wait to see this since GpW and t3 are sort of at same level of power. Nothing to predict at all!

(P.S: enough ranting about mappool u plebs just remove MS and add xlmbut, ezastro, TCS Remastered, ezspark, Ancient Museum, ezorb and ezpaint(maybe even kctf01 and pluctf04).) emo

Edited: 2019-06-07 14:31 by ThunDer
Jelly Jam
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2019-06-07 13:29 
Now's his time to shine emo
Ragnarok
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2019-06-07 12:34 
||||5 on antix
Jelly Jam
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2019-06-07 07:30 
Right. We can worry about that later.

Meanwhile, we concentrate on the clanwar. emo
Ragnarok
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2019-06-07 00:58 
emo emo emo

yeah why not, but i dunno if the mappool is the immediate issue in hindsight
MasterSven
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2019-06-07 00:46 
If anyone has anything more on this topic feel free to message me on discord. Now lets stop digressing.

Still waiting for a response on more important matters:

Anyway I suggest we form a council representing each significant active clan, consisting of Rag, CJ, Jelly and me. Lets see if the 4 of us can find out what to do with the mappool and perhaps with the rules as well. If we can't figure it out we'll consult others, which we could do from the start since we're representatives (but those others don't have to be invited to the council inmediately themselves). Can the other clans agree on this?
Ragnarok
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2019-06-07 00:35 

Deleted: 2019-06-07 00:37 by Ragnarok
BlAcKeYe
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2019-06-07 00:18 
I do not wish to make remarks about your point of view, whether it's accurate or not, except for a small but nonetheless notable sentence you typed which stood out to me.

In your comment you mentioned the following:
"People identify themselves with a clan, or a map and therefore defend it..."

I have a few things to say about this. Based on my own perspective as a Cx member, I do not think this is true at all. I do not like Rag's maps simply because he is the one who made them, but (at least in my opinion) because they are actually enjoyable to play. Of course, this is a matter of opinion and not everyone might agree with me. Some people, like you for instance, like the classic maps such as Zaitox or DW more and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The thing is, however, that you're trying to influence the mappool as a "significant active clan leader" when you're hardly even active at all.

Another thing I'd like to mention is that, in a recent review on JJ2online about Laro's new map, you said this:
"This level is such a relief after all those new mappool maps of last year which had similar pathways and carrot areas. Castle of Devan Shell’s layout is unique, yet it works in games and requires players to think of movements and tactics they never had to think of before. Im really glad you made this so people can be inspired by its originality for making future maps. This map is definitely worth it being played in JDC events and even possibly mappool material."

I do not wish to question Laro's levelmaking skills, but based on my own perspective and those of some other active people I can say that this level is definitely not mappool material. Whether or not this level is actually suitable for JDC events I'll leave up to the actual JDC supervisors since I do not have experience with events. Now back to your first quote; you mentioned that people identify themselves with a clan, or a map and therefore defend it as a form of non-rational egoic reactions, but isn't that exactly what you're doing in this review? You're taking Laro's side as a clanmember in defending a map that is, based on the opinions of several active people, not mappool material at all. Now I get that you want to defend him by saying something nice about his map, but isn't this the definition of identifying with a clan and/or player which you seem to loathe so much?
King
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2019-06-06 19:47 

Deleted: 2019-06-06 19:57 by King
MasterSven
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2019-06-06 15:57 
I never said anything about Rag specifically, nor did I mention a vote about Hermanos.

Imo those maps arent the best of the best, but they arent worse than some maps that are in the mappool, and since we want to expand it they are some candidates for inclusion. I would prefer them over the one-day-fly maps Ive mentioned and people actually play them more often than those maps as well in casual games.

'Rag said what he said cause you called him out on hermanos'

'a MAPPOOL CONTEST'

Go read my comment again and I hope you guys realize that these remarks make absolutely no sense.

'you were just straight up wrong'

So perhaps this was meant for you lol....


Anyway these non-rational egoic reactions take us nowhere. This is actually what happens in this community often (also with mappool voting). People identify themselves with a clan, or a map and therefore defend it just because its them vs the rest or just to get the best possible result for their clan (which is what you do during a match not during the assembly of a mappool).

Anyway I suggest we form a council representing each significant active clan, consisting of Rag, CJ, Jelly and me. Lets see if the 4 of us can find out what to do with the mappool and perhaps with the rules as well. If we can't figure it out we'll consult others, which we could do from the start since we're representatives (but those others don't have to be invited to the council inmediately themselves). Can the other clans agree on this?

Edited: 2019-06-06 16:24 by MasterSven
King
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2019-06-06 15:24 
Rag said what he said cause you called him out on hermanos, and he was right to do so cause you were just straight up wrong. He didn't mention any other levels or level-makers, he simply didn't want to be put in the same basket with people who have done what they did, and you tried to put him in the said basket.

Warren's comment is a bit tougher to talk about though since he mentions "quality" of maps. Problem with quality is that it's relative to peoples tastes and different people see different qualities in maps.

However there is certain things which are most certainly not opinion-based when it comes to quality, and that would be the certain terrible aspects certain maps have to offer which are abusable.

The good examples infact are the maps you mentioned:

Distopia has a huge problem with the control being laid down on whoever gets to control the top.

Semi and DW both have a huge issue by being maps where you can just stall the game. Semi has 3 almost completely unbreakable DD spots whereas DW is just huge with an absurd layout.

Zaitox is literally the worst of them all. Nobody wants to attack in that map as your best chance is literally just lagging through people's D.

These maps have no quality in them what's so ever, they simply allow people a chance against tougher teams cause you can draw power from their abusive parts almost for free.

I'm not sure if you're just out of touch, but the gameplay has changed a lot, people got a lot better and as such these abuses are actually really awful in comparison to the past.

Today i find fast paced maps a lot more fun as they force you to think act and react fast. There's both the smarts and the skills involved and the maps you've mentioned require neither.

While i agree with your last sentence, i don't think the maps you've mentioned fit into that category at all.
MasterSven
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2019-06-05 19:29 
@Rag: Im talking about more than just 1 vote, I hope you did realize this before commenting. Im talking about a period of many years, about lobbying and such as well.

@Warren: This is an old game, there are few players and even fewer levelmakers. Dont expect many good new maps to be released. Imo its more about perfecting the current mappool, with of course the possibility of adding high quality new maps, than it is about keeping up certain amounts of new and old maps.

I hope we can all agree that its all about map quality, not about who made it, when it was made, nor whether it has been overplayed.

Edited: 2019-06-05 20:45 by MasterSven
Ragnarok
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2019-06-05 19:26 
@MS pls get ur facts straight before spouting nonsense. A quick search gave me this:

http://jazzjackrabbit.net/index.php?league=1&season=1&op=forumz&watte=viewtopic&topic=953

Rag, nor cx tried to influence this vote, for a level that was made for a MAPPOOL CONTEST.

THX FOR YOUR TIME.
ThunDer
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2019-06-05 17:11 
Based on actual statistics(Frequency of each map being played) it's safe to say that adding maps(chiefly oldschool ones) does not remedy nor significantly affect mappool in actuality. No matter the multitude of map of that sort, they won't be given noticeable attention and that's not going to change anytime soon(apart from that party of people rigidly adherent to that doctrine such as CC whose members show faint sign of activity). Thus I don't see the rationale behind that given that the active portion of people favors newly designed maps(quality ones; astro, scrap...etc) and not rly in-line with oldschool ones. But I am not certainly suggesting the thorough removal of any of them,conversely, I advocate the presence of a handful of them but pointing out that it will NOT prevent certains maps from being picked over and over mostly because of being stally, campy and tedious they'll barely serve as a strategic alternative for whatever purpose.

What I am really trying to show is that mappool should take a forward direction(addition of newly designed quality maps) as a first priority with no reluctance to maintain some ,but not to a stuffing degree, of the oldschool ones enough to make the mappool diverse overall.

Edited: 2019-06-05 17:19 by ThunDer
[GpW]Urbs
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2019-06-05 16:31 
29th wop wop! time to kick some ass
MasterSven
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2019-06-05 10:05 
I've been saying this for many years now. I don't really agree with part of your solution though. Imo some levelmakers have been working for their own politics the most actually, which has given us one-day-fly maps like Carrot Farm, Waterfall Caves, Los Pollos Hermanos, Sparkling Illusions and Trepidation.

Imo if we'd remove Carrot Farm and added Semi, Butrunti, Distopia, DW (and from my perspective also Zaitox, Ancient Museum, TCS and maybe even Coffee) we would be doing a lot better. I dont mind adding even more decent maps if clans would get some more vetos (perhaps 3 that can be used even when a clan has 0 points).
Jelly Jam
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2019-06-04 23:37 
I am not 100% satisfied with the current system either, but again, isn't this exactly what the JJNet crew wanted from it?

You got clans of the relatively same activity fighting for the better spot in the playoffs, with the #1 ranked clan waiting for them, as they completely deserve their spot in the final by outperforming their above mentioned competition, not just in activity, but also skill and just pure quality really (at least in the league period). There are some flaws here and there regarding the clans that are falling behind, but so far I think the formula is working as it should be working. The balance of activity and skill is not *perfect*, but the clans that try to balance those two factors seem to come out as the most fortunate.

However, don't let that distract you from the fact that the clan that's ranked last has no benefits of a system like this at all. Honestly, I can't think of a way to solve this part with making it fair for everyone, but obviously there needs to be something to up their motivation.

What bothers me more about the Ladder is not the current league system, but the selection of maps. People discuss this in-game basically all the time. From my point of view, the number of maps in the pool is just too limited for something that's supposed to represent a list of levels people actively play matches in, whether they are casual or competetive. There's just not at all a lot to choose from and a great number of quality levels get left out of the pool due to other, worse maps occupying the slots. Both I just find unacceptable.

There's also the current mappool voting system which clans can easily abuse to bend the pool to their favor. One clan can just vote for absolute garbage levels knowing they wont get in, just so the pool ends up having fewer maps for the clan to train in (I hope we at GpW proved our point). If I were to make the mappool I'd get the best representative out of each clan and just make a council that desides on which maps are eligible enough to stay, and which are not, and also which new maps deserve a shot in the league. If the council were to consist of people who have level making experience along with competetive playing experience, that would be a big plus. Could also have one or two neutral/clanless members with a good eye for level design to make sure the criteria is met. As long as there's no clan working for their own politics, it's all good. The same kind of crew should work on the Ladder rules as well.

Oh and the ammount of maps should be doubled *at least*, with an option for a clan to have more vetoes, rather than just one.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Lets see what the rest of you have to say.

EDIT: TYPO (NOT THAT IT'S ANYWHERE NEAR PERFECT NOW)

Edited: 2019-06-05 01:09 by Jelly Jam
Vivando
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2019-06-04 21:23 
Maybe someone can figure out some alternative form of competitive play for the meantime. emo
Lithium
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2019-06-03 21:07 
emo
ThunDer
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2019-06-03 20:11 
The Waiting Game emo
MasterSven
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2019-06-03 18:04 
The delay-offs have started. emo
Vivando
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2019-06-03 16:53 
Scheduled to June 29th at 20:00 GDT+1!
cooba
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2019-06-02 17:51 
emo
Vivando
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2019-06-02 16:28 
Sure. emo
Ragnarok
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2019-06-02 16:15 
Perhaps my boi coobster can join?
Ragnarok
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2019-06-02 16:02 
Can EXP if it's before the second half of July emo
Vivando
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2019-06-02 16:02 
Let's do this! GpW was the original challenger!

The date and time hasn't been decided yet.

Looking for ref/bc/experts as usual.
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