-=-
Menu
Tournaments
Profile
Poll
Latest videos
Latest comments
2019-08-23: "Nice work! ..." -GrytmasternCC
2019-08-23: "cc on firefor o..." -Loon
2019-08-23: "oof close one" -Loon
2019-08-21: "ah heres regg..." -Loon
2019-08-21: "gg re" -Loon
2019-08-20: "nice lahm strat..." -ThunDer
2019-08-19: "hyp failed at F..." -ThunDer
2019-08-18: "bg" -ThunDer
2019-08-14: "dayum gurus, ni..." -[GpW]Urbs
2019-08-10: "gg wp ..." -Laro24
2019-08-10: " ..." -[GpW]Urbs
2019-08-10: "pwnd ..." -Plumbe
Latest matches
flag CC [11:02] [GpW]flag
flag CC [05:04] [GpW]flag
flag CC [06:03] [GpW]flag
flag [GpW] [07:00] CCflag
flag [GpW] [05:01] CXflag
flag CX [07:06] [GpW]flag
flag -t3> [05:02] CXflag
flag CX [05:04] -t3>flag
flag -t3> [05:04] [GpW]flag
flag CX [09:02] -t3>flag
Latest forum posts
By: SirEmentaler, in: What JJ2 level title best describes your sex life?JJ2 related 2019-08-21 20:45
I just wanted to say this topic was inspired by a ...
By: Slaz, in: What JJ2 level title best describes your sex life?JJ2 related 2019-08-20 14:13
ELEKTREK PYRAMID :dizzy:
By: PurpleJazz, in: What JJ2 level title best describes your sex life?JJ2 related 2019-08-19 06:44
15 Second Rush
By: Laro24, in: What JJ2 level title best describes your sex life?JJ2 related 2019-08-10 19:15
Nuclear Afterblast :whistling:
By: Plumbe, in: What JJ2 level title best describes your sex life?JJ2 related 2019-08-10 16:50
Wicked Wood :flex:
More...!

JJnet's forum

«Latest posts» «Latest threads» «Search» «User CP»

  Page: 1 2 3 4
     Season 7 proposals | [q] 2012-10-27 12:56
cooba
[si]avatar
JJnet user

Posts: 323
51
1. Ditch the playoffs, they make for a boring season without clanwars. The last legit clanwar was this: http://jazzjackrabbit.net/index.php?league=1&season=1&op=descr&id=2092

2. Do something to the mappool that isn't just a vote.

ty for listening




Jazz 2 Online
http://www.jazz2online.com
Replies
cooba
[si]
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 323
51
#76 | [q]2012-11-01 21:23
Very well, then:
Quote:
I seriously think the lack of clanwars is to be explained as lack of interest on the part of the warteams in the major clans.

I agree this is the explanation, but there's a deeper reason for the lack of interest, which I'm going to demonstrate:

The current system allows the top four to sit comfortably until the score limit is hit. In the previous system, where the season was over as soon as the score limit was hit, each non-leading clan had much more motivation to ascend the ladder and precede the leader. (I can't speak with 100% certainty here but I'm pretty sure GpW would be doing more than just posting idle comments, if there had been no playoffs.)

There is also the psychological effect of arranging your own CWs and choosing your opponent. Even if clanwars usually happen only between the top clans, making the process institutionalised takes away some of the "thrill" so to speak.

While there haven't been many CW's in the past, the statement that playoffs increased the number of clanwars is simply false, as proved by my earlier post. Therefore there is little to no benefit of keeping the playoff system in place.



PS. All this nonsense about "rushing ladders" can be solved with a simple clause:
Quote:
A clan may not submit or verify any matches until the clanwar challenge is either accepted or refused



Jazz 2 Online
http://www.jazz2online.com
(This post has been helpful to 1 of the forumers.)
i:m
CX
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 264
46
#77 | [q]2012-11-01 21:27
sorry nie chcialo mi sie twojego postu czytac : - D
[GpW]Urbs
[GpW]
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 377
54
#78 | [q]2012-11-01 21:41
Nop GpW wouldn't be doing anything more tbh, why do you think cdf is willing to have a cw with us - we don't have a warteamemo
So again, while I can't speak for everyone (but 1 do speak for around 1/10th, so that's quite a lot I suppose), we most definitely wouldn't have been more interested.

Some other season maybe.

Fact is, you adapt to the rules before the season and I'm not sure what we prefer.
I mean one of the things most of you seem to forget as well is that cw's on jj2 count for more than just the points. They're about pride as well. So for example, having won a ladder once, now a single cw might be more important to me than the ladder. Beating CC would be much prefered to winning the ladder. That might not be true for all clans, but is true for us atm.

We might do more cw's in the future tho, because we know we suck so we can actually do them for fun, because our lack of quality means we have no ambition anymore. Again, we are and will for some time continue to be, indifferent to the system as long as it doesn't change mid-season, which hasn't really happened up till now and we don't expect to be happening anytime soon.


I suppose if people want so desperately to go back to the old system, that works for us as well. The clause cooba mentioned seems like it could do the trick.

We could actually apply it to the current system as well, in which case the 4th clan (or all of them is the situation is close) could be kicked out of the top 4 by a challenger (cdf in this case), even if the 1st clan were to reach the 200 points before the date of the cw in question. All this would do is delay the playoffs for a bit, but that's no biggie, I think. Actually I think this would be the natural thing to do (a sort of evolution of the system if you will).

So we get the playoffs and the "rush" factor, at the end of the season. Because under the current rules I'm pretty sure GpW could stall out CDF? (not sure tho, our first "no" was just me being lazy and hoping they'd give up, I hate devoting time to organizing anything right now)
Lithium
aEs
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 1758
107
#79 | [q]2012-11-01 21:46
The old system could work with some improvements. I'll see about gathering all the good ideas and putting them into another "Improving rules" thread at the end of the season.


We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
cooba
[si]
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 323
51
#80 | [q]2012-11-01 21:49
Also: the 2-1-0 distribution of points was a good change, and I hope it stays even if playoffs are removed.


Jazz 2 Online
http://www.jazz2online.com
Lithium
aEs
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 1758
107
#81 | [q]2012-11-01 21:49
cooba wrote:
Also: the 2-1-0 distribution of points was a good change, and I hope it stays even if playoffs are removed.


Indeed, it should stay.


We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
MasterSven
[CDF]
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 398
41
#82 | [q]2012-11-01 21:56
If you refuse 2 more times, which means 2 weeks, then you will lose 50 points imo, so save yourself the effort.
If you don't want to CW us then you most certainly would not want to participate in the playoffs, if you give us the playoff spot we are statisfied as well.
Toni
CC
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 471
36
#83 | [q]2012-11-01 22:54
cooba wrote:
Also: the 2-1-0 distribution of points was a good change, and I hope it stays even if playoffs are removed.


This is exactly what I suggested 5 seasons ago. Unfortunately they didn't want to implement it until this season.
SirEmentaler
avatar

Moderator
Posts: 126
44
#84 | [q]2012-11-01 23:30
MasterSven wrote:
If you refuse 2 more times, which means 2 weeks, then you will lose 50 points imo, so save yourself the effort.

(Actually, 22 rather than 50, so in a situation without additional regular matches on either side, they would still end up in the playoffs lol.)
MasterSven
[CDF]
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 398
41
#85 | [q]2012-11-02 10:39
I've been looking into the rules and concluded I forgot they changed before this season.
I can't find anything about being able to refuse CWs 3 times anymore.

§2.1.2 If they do refuse a clanwar against a lower ranked clan, they will lose the amount of points they would have lost if the clanwar were lost 40-0. The other clan gets no points.

According to this rule, GpW should already have lost 22 points, as GpW refused on Wednesday.

So GpW should have 34 points at this moment.
If they refuse or not accept before next Wednesday, they will lose another 7 points, which will mean GpW will then have 27 points and CDF will have 30 and will advance to the playoffs.

I wonder if Im wrong, or if admins are too lazy to maintain their own rules.
Vegito
CC
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 398
31
#86 | [q]2012-11-02 10:42
§2.1 Clans with 40 points or more may not refuse clanwars against clans with a lower rank than their own, but they may refuse to play normal matches or reschedule the clanwar by using the "change day" button (max 30 days into the future, as the script will tell you).

It is literally stated here.
King
CX
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 219
35
#87 | [q]2012-11-02 11:11
Lithium wrote:
The definition should be correct emo

King probably thought of 2 POINTS 2 POINTS emo


I did know what he meant by that, i just asked which points exactly as i wrote a lot of stuff so perhaps i could elaborate


Player: Air!
Air: ?
[GpW]Urbs
[GpW]
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 377
54
#88 | [q]2012-11-02 11:56
ups, lol did not know about that oneemo

c'est la vie emo


EDIT: Would like to add one thing tho, if the above rule is true... why the hell are people moaning about clanwars then, if even the 3 times per season decline rule doesn't hold anymore then basically any aspiring clan that want's to force a cw can do it EASILY.
MasterSven
[CDF]
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 398
41
#89 | [q]2012-11-02 12:05
Almost no one knows the rules, I have to admit that they are quite large and complicated now, but its people's own responsibility to know them.
[GpW]Urbs
[GpW]
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 377
54
#90 | [q]2012-11-02 12:07
Yup agreed. Looks like we lose 22 points, should read b4 I click next time I guess.
Vegito
CC
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 398
31
#91 | [q]2012-11-02 17:03
http://www.jazzjackrabbit.net/index.php?league=1&season=1&op=inter&id=2

13, according to the calculator
Iustyn
RDS
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 373
24
#92 | [q]2012-11-02 18:16
hahaha so go play ladders cdf xDDDD emo emo
MasterSven
[CDF]
avatar
JJnet user
Posts: 398
41
#93 | [q]2012-11-02 18:21
Haha or learn math iustyn, if GpW has more points, we will earn more if we win the CW as well.
The gap was just too big, now that isnt the case anymore.
Grytolle
avatar

JJnet admin
Posts: 847
87
#94 | [q]2012-11-02 22:31
cooba wrote:
I agree this is the explanation, but there's a deeper reason for the lack of interest, which I'm going to demonstrate:

The current system allows the top four to sit comfortably until the score limit is hit. In the previous system, where the season was over as soon as the score limit was hit, each non-leading clan had much more motivation to ascend the ladder and precede the leader. (I can't speak with 100% certainty here but I'm pretty sure GpW would be doing more than just posting idle comments, if there had been no playoffs.)

There is also the psychological effect of arranging your own CWs and choosing your opponent. Even if clanwars usually happen only between the top clans, making the process institutionalised takes away some of the "thrill" so to speak.

While there haven't been many CW's in the past, the statement that playoffs increased the number of clanwars is simply false, as proved by my earlier post. Therefore there is little to no benefit of keeping the playoff system in place.

The purpose of introducing the play-off system was actually to give the ladder a bit more prestige, since it used to be seen as just something that did not prove anything that we did while we waited for the next edition of JJ2WC. Anyway, I can follow your reasoning now, and eventhough I am not entirely convinced that trying out a tweaked version of the old system will make for more fun or more clanwar activity, I see no harm in trying it out next season (unless other admins disagree, of course).


Quote:
PS. All this nonsense about "rushing ladders" can be solved with a simple clause:
A clan may not submit or verify any matches until the clanwar challenge is either accepted or refused

That would solve the problem in the final stage where a clan might try to avoid a clanwar that they might lose by hitting 200 by playing a ton of ladder matches, yes, but it will do very little to put a cap on rewarding activity in general, which is one of the things that the play-offs do (but probably to a larger extent than you would prefer).
  Page: 1 2 3 4