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Return to thread2012-02-22 09:20
Summary for Iustyn (Yeah, I've been around)
* JJ2 is nicer now than a while back if you look at the overall picture
* People have a right to be angry when things happen, but there should be civil discussion and reconciliation.
* You have to trust people as much as possible, and otherwise just ignore them.
* CDF did a bad thing and should be punished in proportion to their crime, keeping in mind the effects on the clan scene: remove a number of points.
* If you find the younger kids annoying, try to make them feel welcome and appreciated, while correcting any bs that occurs.

long post
To be honest, I think JJ2 is friendlier now than it was a while back. I don't see that much fighting going on, and when there is fighting it ends quite quickly.

One side of it is to let things slide and not make a big deal out of them. The other side of it is to not make a big deal out of people making a big deal. You have to remember that some things are more personal to other people than they are to you. Trying to make people feel stupid for caring about their hobby doesn't help anyone. First things should be talked out in a civilized manner, then there can be reconciliation. Unfortunately part #1 doesn't always work out, which is why us admins sometimes prefer to just put the lid back on the pot of annoying and hope it subsides with time.

The main problem at this time is obviously distrust, which has probably gotten worse yet now with the, albeit not that major, CDF affaire. The sad truth is that there is very little you can do about cheating at this time, but you have to remember that JJ2 has always been like that - you just wasn't aware of it and conseauently didn't freak out about it all the time. Just play and have fun, and if you really have to, avoid playing vs. people you suspect of cheating or that you don't trust. The key to staying happy on JJ2 is to stick to games that have utility for you: personally I only play with CCers or a quite limited set of friends (yes that includes Bot1 and Bot2 <3) unless I'm bored, in which case I will go for a ZD game or two.

As for CDF: People have a right to be angry at CDF for what they did, but they should put things in perspective and realize that the impact on CDF's reputation will be bigger than the impact on the victims was. CDF gained 3 ladder points in total by my count. To a certain extent, I can see where MS was coming from, when people had refused to play VS him out of some misplaced sense of fear. Nontheless it remains a crime, so CDF can expect to lose a couple of points within the coming days.

It's obvious from the chatlogs that punishing the clan as a whole is in order, but as with any punishment there must be a sense of proportion, otherwise the punishment will incentivize further mischief instead of less. Furthermore, banning CDF or some individuals wouldn't be beneficial to any of us, as the number of opponent clans would decrease (by one, by my count!). Hey, you might wonder! What about [some SR clan]? That 1) wasn't the first offense by the clan as a whole or it's clan leader (whining a lot is not a crime) and 2) we had already exhausted other means (in part because we wanted them to keep active) and 3) we consider actual cheating to be worse than faking (which doesn't mean that faking isn't a crime to take seriously).

As for people being young: Up to a certain that's quite a sad excuse. There's plenty of well-behaved children around. Then again, it's not all their fault either, because older players don't really take good care of them. It happens quite a lot that some young player asks me to train him, but I say no, because I'm too selfish to waste energy on someone who's not a clanmate, unless I'm in a particularly good mood. In my experience, most young adults become a lot more mature quickly if they end up in the right environment. Fawful was one of the most obnoxious noobs ever, but once we let him into CC, he became a well-respected community member within a few months. Then again, it doesn't always work out. It didn't seem to have much effect on Hakum, but then again, he was under a lot of outside pressure. Either way, if you want the young ones to be mature, then take them under your wing. It works more often than not.

Edit: I used to be a better person in that respect: taking care of newcomers. I guess I've gotten a bit scarred by so many people leaving CC to join/form other clans...