Well, this is something I've been kind of keeping in for ages but I'm basically going to ramble, and I don't expect any "CTF proz0rz trainerz" to change their thought. This is a variety of of the general CTF community people, not everyone as a whole.
CTF players barely want to try anything new. They want to play the same maps, same gamemode, same everything. They pretty much aspire to becoming really good at one map by playing at one certain map hundreds of times to the point where everyone else is sick of it but want to practice it again because "I/we need to train" even though they actually need to train the other mappool maps more and get pwned in maps other than their precious je/semi/ww.
When you at least try to introduce them to a new map, you'll get lame excuses like "I don't know this map". Well no crap! No one starts off knowing everything and has to start somewhere, are you worried by that you might lose? Welcome to learning from mistakes other than your best level.
It's sad that levelmakers spend all the time making new stuff, yet most of the maps just simply fall into obscurity. People reject them for mappool maps, I could understand that as a clan member you might need to practice them, but it seems like hardly any CTF player goes out of the box every now and then. Do we really have to think competitively as a first priority all the time? Come to think of it with some people bitching about teamplay so much, it's probably true.
Don't get me started on trying to introduce other gamemodes...most tend to have only played 1 or 2 levels of another gamemode then say it's boring/sucks.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate CTF, but I wish this online community would branch out its interests more. I don't care if it requires more skill, I want something different. It's one of the main reasons I left the ladder. You're free to prefer this gamemode over anything else. And no I don't really care for hotels, so please dont get me started on NC, I couldn't care less for them.
You can play this game online???
Well, this is something I've been kind of keeping in for ages but I'm basically going to ramble, and I don't expect any "CTF proz0rz trainerz" to change their thought. This is a variety of of the general CTF community people, not everyone as a whole.
CTF players barely want to try anything new. They want to play the same maps, same gamemode, same everything. They pretty much aspire to becoming really good at one map by playing at one certain map hundreds of times to the point where everyone else is sick of it but want to practice it again because "I/we need to train" even though they actually need to train the other mappool maps more and get pwned in maps other than their precious je/semi/ww.
When you at least try to introduce them to a new map, you'll get lame excuses like "I don't know this map". Well no crap! No one starts off knowing everything and has to start somewhere, are you worried by that you might lose? Welcome to learning from mistakes other than your best level.
It's sad that levelmakers spend all the time making new stuff, yet most of the maps just simply fall into obscurity. People reject them for mappool maps, I could understand that as a clan member you might need to practice them, but it seems like hardly any CTF player goes out of the box every now and then. Do we really have to think competitively as a first priority all the time? Come to think of it with some people bitching about teamplay so much, it's probably true.
Don't get me started on trying to introduce other gamemodes...most tend to have only played 1 or 2 levels of another gamemode then say it's boring/sucks.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate CTF, but I wish this online community would branch out its interests more. I don't care if it requires more skill, I want something different. It's one of the main reasons I left the ladder. You're free to prefer this gamemode over anything else. And no I don't really care for hotels, so please dont get me started on NC, I couldn't care less for them.
(This post has been helpful to 2 of the forumers.)
A lot of good levels made just get forgotten because people tend to overplay levels like Semi, without even wanting to try the new stuff. Also, other gamemodes should be included in the main league so that people are encouraged to play them, not put them in a random league no one checks anyway.
My biggest concern, though, is the behavior of the ladder community. That's what should worry us more.
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
[s]y u no wants hotel???[/s]
A lot of good levels made just get forgotten because people tend to overplay levels like Semi, without even wanting to try the new stuff. Also, other gamemodes should be included in the main league so that people are encouraged to play them, not put them in a random league no one checks anyway.
My biggest concern, though, is the behavior of the ladder community. That's what should worry us more.
(This post has been helpful to 1 of the forumers.)
Honestly - I dislike overplayed levels and players who complain about maps which seems a bulls**t for 'em. Rarely I see when people playing new or atleast something different than semi, je, bbswing and other pop stuff...
For my opinion - a true pwner never refuse to play on unknown map (if it's really good, as XLM, IC and OLC did/doing it), and instead of complaining about teamplay, lags and other crappy stuff - he just enjoying the progress(gaming) on this map...
So, I wish JJ2 players will start to think their own minds and don't prefer overplayed/pop map... There's hundreds of other nice maps so i recommend players to play atleast 2-3 matches on some from Anniversary Bashies or something from XLM production...
INACTIVE
Honestly - I dislike overplayed levels and players who complain about maps which seems a bulls**t for 'em. Rarely I see when people playing new or atleast something different than semi, je, bbswing and other pop stuff...
For my opinion - a true pwner never refuse to play on unknown map (if it's really good, as XLM, IC and OLC did/doing it), and instead of complaining about teamplay, lags and other crappy stuff - he just enjoying the progress(gaming) on this map...
So, I wish JJ2 players will start to think their own minds and don't prefer overplayed/pop map... There's hundreds of other nice maps so i recommend players to play atleast 2-3 matches on some from Anniversary Bashies or something from XLM production... :-D
99% of what u said is true but still it seems for me ur a lil invidious or better sad that people keep playin ctf,ctf and ctf again.
maybe some of them played others gamemodes too and they didnt enjoy them.
and about the maps,its good to train in all maps but imo u should also have ur best map,where u trained most and which can save ur ass in competitions,ladders and others...
about overplayed maps,u cant force people to play some maps,especially the new ones.they play what they like
99% of what u said is true but still it seems for me ur a lil invidious or better sad that people keep playin ctf,ctf and ctf again.
maybe some of them played others gamemodes too and they didnt enjoy them.
and about the maps,its good to train in all maps but imo u should also have ur best map,where u trained most and which can save ur ass in competitions,ladders and others...
about overplayed maps,u cant force people to play some maps,especially the new ones.they play what they like :)
Many also don't enjoy other gamemodes because they favor other players in term of skill. It seems most players really like to win and play to win - and not to have fun.
For me, having fun in JJ2, is also trying something new from time to time.
Except for idiot maps, that is, but that is rather obvious.
Many also don't enjoy other gamemodes because they favor other players in term of skill. It seems most players really like to win and play to win - and not to have fun.
For me, having fun in JJ2, is also trying something new from time to time.
Except for idiot maps, that is, but that is rather obvious.
In 2002: OMG you guys only play DW stop it
In 2004: OMG you guys only play distopia/DW/Semi - post jj2wc1 - stop it
In 2006: OMG you guys only play JE/DW/Semi/Distopia/(MS)/(NA)/(SBv2)/(bblair) - post jj2wc2 - stop it
In 2008: OMG you guys only play JE/DW/Semi/Distopia/SBv2/MS/bblair/AYB/KMC stop it
In 2010: OMG you guys only play JE/DW/Semi/Distopia/bblair/bbswing/GW/Epitome stop it
In 2012: OMG you guys only play JE/DW/Semi/Distopia/bblair/bbswing/GW/Epitome/WW/gauntlet/sbv2/silwi/(cots)/(zaitox)/(ah)/(NA)/(FF) stop it
Okay, just pointing out that comparing to the past there are a lot of more levels being played. Anyway, I guess many more good CTF levels were made and weren't played but I don't think the community is *THAT* unwilling to play new CTF levels. I for myself accept trying quite a few new levels.
You can't really ask others to play gamemodes they don't like either. Making the jj2 competetive scene less... competetive will probably never happen when the avarage age is still fairly low. The community is quite rude to other/weaker players too at times.
In 2002: OMG you guys only play DW stop it
In 2004: OMG you guys only play distopia/DW/Semi - post jj2wc1 - stop it
In 2006: OMG you guys only play JE/DW/Semi/Distopia/(MS)/(NA)/(SBv2)/(bblair) - post jj2wc2 - stop it
In 2008: OMG you guys only play JE/DW/Semi/Distopia/SBv2/MS/bblair/AYB/KMC stop it
In 2010: OMG you guys only play JE/DW/Semi/Distopia/bblair/bbswing/GW/Epitome stop it
In 2012: OMG you guys only play JE/DW/Semi/Distopia/bblair/bbswing/GW/Epitome/WW/gauntlet/sbv2/silwi/(cots)/(zaitox)/(ah)/(NA)/(FF) stop it
Okay, just pointing out that comparing to the past there are a lot of more levels being played. Anyway, I guess many more good CTF levels were made and weren't played but I don't think the community is *THAT* unwilling to play new CTF levels. I for myself accept trying quite a few new levels.
You can't really ask others to play gamemodes they don't like either. Making the jj2 competetive scene less... competetive will probably never happen when the avarage age is still fairly low. The community is quite rude to other/weaker players too at times.
I think around 2004-2007 people played way more unknown maps, especially at the JDC.
Nowadays 2v2 and 3v3s for fun are mostly played in JE, WW, Semi etc.
I think around 2004-2007 people played way more unknown maps, especially at the JDC.
Nowadays 2v2 and 3v3s for fun are mostly played in JE, WW, Semi etc.
It is the players themselves who decide if they wish to play just to train for the ladder or not. I guess it's logical with a more competetive jj2 scene that players stick to the jjnet mappool. I don't think it was really that much different in the past though, MS. This is the same discussion as in 2005, in 2002 etc.. JDC did usually boost activity for a while and therefore boost activity for the lesser known maps too. Now with jjnet around activity is kinda stable throughout the year with a set mappool giving little chance to play something different. The break between the seasons was nice, players actually played for fun then. It can still happen now but it is the players who decide that and I guess your point about the young players is correct then. They (generally) are the most active and most competetive.
Either way, I guess this can be solved by making the ladder a secondary tournament instead of the main tournament people play for. Get more JJ2WCs/clan tournaments or something that are considered more important than the ladder. But then again, that's up to the players to decide that and it is up to the players themselves to open themselves up for more fungames and less ladder games. It's all about the ladder currently which is good to see, but in a way bad too .
It is the players themselves who decide if they wish to play just to train for the ladder or not. I guess it's logical with a more competetive jj2 scene that players stick to the jjnet mappool. I don't think it was really that much different in the past though, MS. This is the same discussion as in 2005, in 2002 etc.. JDC did usually boost activity for a while and therefore boost activity for the lesser known maps too. Now with jjnet around activity is kinda stable throughout the year with a set mappool giving little chance to play something different. The break between the seasons was nice, players actually played for fun then. It can still happen now but it is the players who decide that and I guess your point about the young players is correct then. They (generally) are the most active and most competetive.
Either way, I guess this can be solved by making the ladder a secondary tournament instead of the main tournament people play for. Get more JJ2WCs/clan tournaments or something that are considered more important than the ladder. But then again, that's up to the players to decide that and it is up to the players themselves to open themselves up for more fungames and less ladder games. It's all about the ladder currently which is good to see, but in a way bad too :).
Old thread. I wasn't even online around that time so I'm not going to check threads from several years back. Then again I'm not really too suprised that people relatively stuck to the same stuff though, map standards were a lot lower back then.
Quote:
99% of what u said is true but still it seems for me ur a lil invidious or better sad that people keep playin ctf,ctf and ctf again.
maybe some of them played others gamemodes too and they didnt enjoy them.
and about the maps,its good to train in all maps but imo u should also have ur best map,where u trained most and which can save ur ass in competitions,ladders and others...
about overplayed maps,u cant force people to play some maps,especially the new ones.they play what they like
I don't have the right mindset to play the same map constantly, it's not my thing. I'm not forcing anyone here, but I'm speaking my mind that this is making the community quite boring. From people trying other gamemodes I usually just see them play one or two maps and then "THIS SUCKS". Hell I'm not sure if I like flag run, it may just be the poor basic linear layouts.
Quote:
autyzm dal o sobie znac
This post is so stupid in so many ways. My brain is melting.
1. Autism has jack-shit to do with this thread. Many people agree with my point and think about it reguardless.
2. Trying to speak behind my back in another language when I can still use a translator to roughly know what you're saying.
3. If you don't have anything proper to say about this, negative or postitive, don't say it.
You can play this game online???
[quote]What an eye opening thread, nobody has ever thought of--
http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=3530
Oh.[/quote]
Old thread. I wasn't even online around that time so I'm not going to check threads from several years back. Then again I'm not really too suprised that people relatively stuck to the same stuff though, map standards were a lot lower back then.
[quote]99% of what u said is true but still it seems for me ur a lil invidious or better sad that people keep playin ctf,ctf and ctf again.
maybe some of them played others gamemodes too and they didnt enjoy them.
and about the maps,its good to train in all maps but imo u should also have ur best map,where u trained most and which can save ur ass in competitions,ladders and others...
about overplayed maps,u cant force people to play some maps,especially the new ones.they play what they like :)
[/quote]
I don't have the right mindset to play the same map constantly, it's not my thing. I'm not forcing anyone here, but I'm speaking my mind that this is making the community quite boring. From people trying other gamemodes I usually just see them play one or two maps and then "THIS SUCKS". Hell I'm not sure if I like flag run, it may just be the poor basic linear layouts.
[quote]autyzm dal o sobie znac[/quote]
This post is so stupid in so many ways. My brain is melting.
[b]1. Autism has jack-shit to do with this thread. Many people agree with my point and think about it reguardless.[/b]
2. Trying to speak behind my back in another language when I can still use a translator to roughly know what you're saying.
3. If you don't have anything proper to say about this, negative or postitive, don't say it.
I think that mean I'll pwn in making Single Player levels
Well, I think i have to do SP levels then... Those probably will be more popular
Maybe not so much players will play 'em (meant players with JJ2+)
but I think that's only hope for levelmaking-future...
I think most of players just lost old spirit of JJ2... This is not so quite interesting game as
it was in past time... Anyway, I don't feel I'll stop playing this game in near future,
even if it's not so fun anymore as it was...
INACTIVE
[s]I think that mean I'll pwn in making Single Player levels
Well, I think i have to do SP levels then... Those probably will be more popular[/s]
Maybe not so much players will play 'em (meant players with JJ2+)
but I think that's only hope for levelmaking-future...
I think most of players just lost old spirit of JJ2... This is not so quite interesting game as
it was in past time... Anyway, I don't feel I'll stop playing this game in near future,
even if it's not so fun anymore as it was...
Well. I'll create levels reguardless of whether they get popular or not. I don't create levels to get popular, but to free ideas I have. Don't force yourself to create levels to be popular, do what you feel like doing that pops up in your mind.
You can play this game online???
Well. I'll create levels reguardless of whether they get popular or not. I don't create levels to get popular, but to free ideas I have. Don't force yourself to create levels to be popular, do what you feel like doing that pops up in your mind.
Dunno if SP would become so popular since - as it has already been pointed out - players are getting more and more focused on winning competitive matches, which seems to be a crucial fun factor.
Otherwise, there's no (competitive) game mode that I disapprove of and i'm always open to try out "new" game modes or maps.
Dunno if SP would become so popular since - as it has already been pointed out - players are getting more and more focused on winning competitive matches, which seems to be a crucial fun factor.
Otherwise, there's no (competitive) game mode that I disapprove of and i'm always open to try out "new" game modes or maps.
Well, I do the same. The only thing I'm affraid to do - is upload it on the community...
But, I think it's not important now... The levels anyway won't become popular or decent feedback'd by a good review (real good review, not crappy quick ones)
The main thing in levelmaking is - take joy from the thing you do/build...
INACTIVE
Well, I do the same. The only thing I'm affraid to do - is upload it on the community...
But, I think it's not important now... The levels anyway won't become popular or decent feedback'd by a good review (real good review, not crappy quick ones)
The main thing in levelmaking is - take joy from the thing you do/build...
If you want to play new levels, find a few people who do and play with them... That there was a period where many new/different maps were played, was because there was lots of ppl active who were both players and level makers. I used to end up in a server with Snooze, Rag and DS or sth, and they'd be like "Hey, gry! Wanna 2v2 in my new ctf?". And then if I liked it, I would force my trainees to play with me there.
If you want to play new levels, find a few people who do and play with them... That there was a period where many new/different maps were played, was because there was lots of ppl active who were [i]both[/i] players and level makers. I used to end up in a server with Snooze, Rag and DS or sth, and they'd be like "Hey, gry! Wanna 2v2 in my new ctf?". And then if I liked it, I would force my trainees to play with me there. :D
The attitude to new maps isn't exactly any better in other games. For example, UT2k4 has literally thousands of released custom maps, yet only three maps ever get played to a real extent online, all of which are official maps.
The attitude to new maps isn't exactly any better in other games. For example, UT2k4 has literally thousands of released custom maps, yet only three maps ever get played to a real extent online, all of which are official maps.
JJnet user
JJnet user
JJnet user
JJnet user
JJnet user
JJnet user