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Thanks for correcting me, I don't remember when this happened, so I thought you were talking about BigJazz or something. Replace it in my post with the following, which is also the first thing you brought up, and my point still stands: " - trying to lie to people with a made up "cool emo emo emo" identity while they only ones they're fooling are themselves "

Wrong cooba, there are no "misguided opinions" cause it's an [u]opinion[/u]. Or do I have to show you the meaning of 'opinion' cause apparently you don't understand? Never mind 'allowing yourself' to bully the person who you believe has a misguided opinion. That's just the weirdest logic I've seen in my life yet.

http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-cobuild/misguided%20opinion

Sure you do. But there is no need for such a member of the community as yourself to condone trolling. At least not to such a high degree. And mind you, the vote for the new weapons was totally rigged with the moti vote anyway so even tho I like the new weapon I'm not too fond of the process by which we got it.

Which still leaves my point standing :) Either way, I'll stay out of this

"I have a moral right to consider misguided opinions on it invalid." "If you describe an opinion or plan as misguided, you are critical of it because you think it is based on an incorrect idea." (definition from the dictionary) Being critical of something is not the same as considering it completely invalid. And you only "think" it is based on an incorrect idea, but for someone else it might not be an incorrect idea. Nevertheless, a misguided opinion is nothing to be bullied about. If you want to prove us wrong, feel free to search for other definitions in dictionaries that could help you. I'm curious if that would actually work out, as I've never participated in such a dictionary duel before :)

If you decided to talk semantics instead of trying to refute my right then that means I do have a moral right and that settles it as far as I can tell. :-D

You did not try to refute some of mine and Urbs' points either, that's why I did not bother to discuss anything other than semantics this time. I appreciate your sarcastic provocation that all is settled as far as you can tell. Seems that you want to continue the discussion. You have a moral right to consider anything you want. You can consider the moon as a round piece of cheese, as long as you don't bother other people with it. But when you bully people for their opinion, it's more than just "considering an opinion invalid", it's more like "throwing their opinion back in their face". A mature person would try to prove them wrong about their misguided opinion instead.

Why is this still going on. With my last comment i wanted to end this. Grytolle kindly made fun of it but instead of bursting out of rage i decided to ignore it in hopes this would end alrdy. And yet it is continued. I told you i am not going hurt toni's feelings again or "bully" him(nice exaggeration).This is the same crap with veg "scoring on cto opportunities" it was a simple joke which you guys took way too seriously, but after the fight i simply decided not so speak to him at all and it was working out quite fine. Toni it was a public comment on a public ladder. i was really not talking behind your back (lol). Veg its way too late to say "il stay out of this". And honestly (i really want you to read this all of you) This is an obvious Cx vs rds war, dont pretend like it isnt i bet even people like slayer would understand whats happening, it has absolutely nothing to do with the comment anymore, you're just looking for a way to smite the other. Take another look at the comment i made and answer me was it really worth that much drama?Really one final time i had no intentions of "bullying" (nice cr*p) toni, but you guys saw i was the one who posted it and went like (ahhh lets make it look like king hates the world life and everything thats breathing), or maybe MAYBE (highly doubt it) you really belived i was insulting (even tho i told you 235657865879 times i was not but thanks for listening). Usually after doing something wrong people would apologize but after all this you can expect nothing from me(if your alrdy havent). This is going to be my final comment (and overall hopefully) and my opinion is that you simply forget about this. i simply wont speak to you at all and thats that.

"Grytolle kindly made fun of it but instead of bursting out of rage i decided to ignore it in hopes this would end alrdy" No, I would seriously appreciate if you stopped posting completely. No joke.

First of all, thank you for your reply, King. I appreciate your efforts in trying to settle this. Unlike other people who believe that only their opinion is right and all has been settled. I hope I will be forgiven for posting a lame meme, but this is one of my favourite quotes and I just can't resist trolling: http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/arguing-with-retards.jpg "This is an obvious Cx vs rds war" A majority of CX has talked about Toni on JJ2 behind his back (besides just wearing the FT tag). Which is also why your joke wasn't found funny, but was taken seriously instead and the whole issue escalated quickly. It has nothing to do with your comment, you are right about that. It's more about the general attitude of CX members towards certain people that also makes it inappropriate for you to make such jokes. Of course, you can feel free to keep believing that it's a war between the two alliances. I won't try to refute you about it anymore, as I have my own conspiracy theory which I already posted, and you've got yours. Suppose I believe you that you only wanted to make a joke and had no intentions of trolling (though it looked like obvious bullying). I still can't say the same about your other clanmates. In case anyone is wondering why I keep mentioning others, I've seen them say stuff about Toni on ZD, like that he's a bad person etc. And I was not referring to King as one of these people, but 3 other people from your clan instead. I'm sorry if you took any of my comments personally. I believe you that you had no intentions of bullying, and you were probably the only CX member who didn't know what FT stands for and were just playing along. You might as well be one of the few good people here.

right back at you gry wow i guess it wasnt my last post here. As for toni. my personal opinion about him is well nothing special. i just found it a bit stupid that he thinks pepper > fireball, but i hold no resentment or grudge against him for it, its just silly from my point of view(it was however a bit silly to post it even tho a long time passed since the pepper fireball switch). I am allowed to have my own opinion just as much as he's allowed to have his about the pepper/fireball. i saw FT stuff going on still however but i had no idea it was this serious. Also that portugal thing. Thats what happened a year ago? (one of this "bad" things you allegedly did) i remember that and see no reason to hate you for it lol.

What Urbs and Anubis said.

zamknIJ JAPE ZJEBIE XDXDXDX

I am really thankful to Vegito, Urbs, and especially Anubis for 'defending' me, even if I didn't want their help this time. In before, they just tried to help me somehow, but not like this time. I will repay you one day for this. As for Anubis' comments, I would write really the same comments as he did, but in much more sentences. He made it clear and not long for reading. Like he's my lawyer, haha. Even better I wasn't online when this all conversation happened after my last post. About Portugal thing: Anubis said it right. I got trolled by Fox, SR, Robee, and iR back then, for no reason. Or no, there was a reason... I was wearing nick with charmap letters and it was colored. I joined CC and they were shooting at me because of that. I couldn't resist anymore and I decided to go inactive for some months and change identity. Since I lived in Portugal, I decided to act like I am living in Portugal and told that to my clan leaders. They all understood me, and tried to help me, except that traitor who you mentioned cooba. What could I do? They were trolling me, I couldn't ignore them anymore, and I did the smartest thing. Except I didn't know it will be something what I will be arguing with random idiots after 5 years. Yes, that happened in 2008-2009. I don't even remember. About 2010 thing, when I was 15years old child, well, BigJazz was there, and lots of other cheats WHAT I HAD HANDS ON FOR LIKE 1minute. I could give you the source code in VB for another HELPFUL cheat, but, because of your stupid comments, I won't help you. I will let the others cheat against you. About 2012 thing? Can't remember what happened there and what was Anubis referring to, but I think he was referring to 2010 and the upper described situation. As for 2012 and 2013 pepper and FT thing, it's long story, but let me say. I appreciate the new plus and it's changes. I like new gun, but still, I stand behind my opinion. Pepper is more useful than that fireball. The main thing is about JJ.net rule, and how it was choosen and about you making fun of me. I just wanted to tell that pepper is more useful than fireball in some (95%) of situations. Fireball acts like blaster, and it's useless to have 2 blasters. Pepper can shoot in all directions, and that's useful in lots of levels, especially SILWI, distopia and JE. But no, after I said it, I got trolled by 'The God of JJ2'. I just wonder what has moti did, and why is she picked to decide such a big change in this system? I will quote me again. 'Changing things doesn't mean they get better'. About King and talking behing my backs: yes, even Anubis proved that what someone told me. You, and your clan was talking lots of crap and lies behind my backs. I never saw you talk nice to anyone. You always wanted to troll someone and to make fun of him/her. Why would I think you wanted to just make a joke on a public ladder, and not to troll me? Maybe because (like Anubis said) it was irony to troll me while I was inactive, and you wanted my attention, so 'why not post on public and toll him, yaaaa! hes gonna notice yey'. Lame. I will please admins not to delete posts. If you consider this being spam, move it to forums. I would do it, but I have no rights. EDIT: cooba, [-] I can't believe what you did. Oh dear God. [-] Fine, I accept the war you started. [-] [PA and threats removed. Don't do that. ~SE]

While all this talk of events from 4 years ago is lovely and all, I can't say I was there to witness or even care about all of it, what I'm more concerned with is the behavior of the users in the present. What REALLY interests me is how, cooba, you can't come up with a single comment longer than 3 lines that says anything more substantial than "I ate a pizza today" while all your opponents are able to apply actual reason and logic to the argument, and the best thing you can come up with in response is an additional "but the pizza had cheese". Let's go in chronological order, starting with "people doing stuff so retarded that they deserve to be trolled", where you are basically ADMITTING to participating in the posting of inflammatory comments towards Toni, and we'll move on from there, to your weak attempts at justifying these actions. [quote="cooba"]"the smartest" [needs to be replaced] with "the one that makes me look like an insecure smartass"[/quote] I fail to see ANY logic in this argument at all, it is a simple attempt at rephrasing a previous statement in a way that would make you seem like the smart one in an argument where you have no ground to stand on, even though no new points have been made. This isn't the first time you've done this either, and if you decide you want me to I can go scouring the archives for other instances of this tactic and then methodically prove why each use of it was invalid. [quote="cooba"]1. CX didn't exist in 2010 2. No, people absolutely need to be called out on stuff like: - threatening to kill people over making cheat tools - being so desperate for peer approval that low reputation on a forum gives them mental breakdowns - trying to lie to people with a made up "cool 8) 8) 8)" identity while they only ones they're fooling are themselves[/quote] It seems to me like when you say CX didn't exist in 2010, you're nitpicking because the people currently in CX were very much active and around during that time. As for your other 'point', cheat tools are in themselves a very polarizing topic and for someone to decide to use hyperbole to explain why they think something was wrong would not be uncommon at all. Toni's low reputation on JCF is, first of all, completely irrelevant to the topic as it's a separate community altogether, and second of all, completely irrelevant to the topic in that it barely even constitutes a representation of someone's integrity as a human being. Mental breakdowns are nothing but your ridiculous attempt at rephrasing previous events and statements yet again. As for your last 'argument', you didn't even make a POINT there. All I heard is you attempting to phrase a decision to play a game with a new identity as both an immature stupid kid decision and an attempt at self-deception, neither of which constitute a sound argument, in the context of this argument or even at all. And please don't do such ridiculous nitpicking when you'll go back on your word not much more than an hour later saying things like "If you decided to talk semantics ... that settles it as far as I can tell." [quote="cooba"]Of course a CC member would say that.[/quote] So instead of attempting to soundly refute an opponent's argument again you resort to cheap tactics, in this case calling bias. I don't think I need to say much more when the fact that calling bias was all you could do speaks for itself. At the very LEAST provide reasons for possible bias. [quote="cooba"]"Someone has created a cheating tool in 2010. A young player (let's say 15 years old) says he deserve to die." Try 2012 and 17... Urbs, I spent six months testing and helping implementing the new JJ2+ features, I have a moral right to consider misguided opinions on it invalid.[/quote] I think it's better for me to quote Anubis (later) here, "You have a moral right to consider anything you want. You can consider the moon as a round piece of cheese, as long as you don't bother other people with it. But when you bully people for their opinion, it's more than just "considering an opinion invalid", it's more like "throwing their opinion back in their face". A mature person would try to prove them wrong about their misguided opinion instead." What I really consider twisted about the argument you tried to put forward is that you would attempt to bully people into believing you hold the high ground because you are "a specialist on the subject" instead of providing actual counter-arguments. And, of course, that you would use this as justification for out-and-out flaming. The last thing you have here is simply your comment on semantics and moral rights and whatnot. I wanted to sarcastically point out a spelling flaw a- oh wait! [quote="cooba"]while they only ones they're fooling[/quote] You spelt 'the' wrong! Pssh, don't you just hate pedantic shitheads who nitpick about tiny little things to undermine your main argument?

I hope that everyone will prove their maturity by not commenting anything on this match anymore that has nothing to do with the game itself. If so, the admins should feel responsible to delete it. There is no reason to publicly insult or fight with people. You're embarassing yourselves more than you think. I can know it, as I've been in multiple situations like this myself. If you feel like you have something to settle with someone, consider doing it in private conversations on MSN or Skype instead. In future discussions, try to consider whether your comment is disrespectful to someone, regardless of whether you like them or not. This is most important, winning the dicussion is not.

eh ms's got a point but i still have to write the following. I am very much impressed that you still accuse me of randomly insulting you and talking behind your back(had no idea you're inactive, i dont pay attention to people going inactive). You are seriously starting to annoy me know. You just want the worst out of me i dont know what "lies" and "bad" was i talking about you. Like i said i just found it funny how you think pepper > fireball, i have NO ****ING IDEA WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST AND ALL OF ITS BULL****.STOP ****ING INCLUDING ME INTO THAT CRAP. silwi - when you're being as at red its a lot better to be in the middle of the lower slide and defend with bnc down + seeks up, if you defend with pepper there you're bound to get pwnt by bouncers from up or seekers from down. If you're blue i prefer to be s at base with seekers shooting up so i can dodge the upcoming bnc, and if someone tries to sneak from down i will see him way before he manages to get to me. In disto and JE RF > pepper in nearly 100% (never ever seen people use pepper unless they accidentally picked it and weapon auto switch did its job).Whatever call it insulting call it bullying i dont really give a **** anymore. From further on if you deicde to continue this then you're just asking to be insulted, becuz i fail to see what the **** do you even want. You gonna force me to make my clanmates change their opinion about you?Personally if they really have such thoughts about you well im starting to think theyr hella right.

great "you're not welcome here" cant w8 for you to spit on me behind my back and please do equal this to my "talking behind toni's back by commenting on a public ladder"

You know that means only admins can see the thread, right? It will get moved to a public forum soon, I guess. EDIT: There you go.

oops, forgot to move the thread :D

"About King and talking behind my backs: yes, even Anubis proved that what someone told me." I have not seen King talk behind your back, and none of my posts says anything like that about him actually. The only thing I've seen him say about you is the pepper joke. I'm sorry if any of my posts led to a misunderstanding. Here are the places where I was referring to talking behind your back: "I am referring to at least 2 CX members who are NOT cooba or king" "A majority of CX has talked about Toni on JJ2 behind his back" "And I was not referring to King as one of these people, but 3 other people from your clan instead." Sorry for posting again but I just wanted to clarify this.

^ I meant on two things there - About King, AND talking behind my back (meant on the same people you said). Someone told me on skype "some players from CX are telling bullies in ZD, come there", but I didn't have time. [quote="King"]I am very much impressed that you still accuse me of randomly insulting you and talking behind your back(had no idea you're inactive, i dont pay attention to people going inactive). You are seriously starting to annoy me know. You just want the worst out of me i dont know what "lies" and "bad" was i talking about you.[/quote] Randomly saying something what you know could hurt me (what could be, and is insulting) while I was inactive and you didn't even know where am I as you said, isn't a funny joke. From my point of view, it's just trying to insult me even more now, and you drop the center of the arguing on me now. Don't be such a pathetic person. You are the one who started this. Even if you say you didn't want to do it, you did it. It isn't your first time to do such a stupid 'joke' as you call it. And to be clear, I was not the one who was in the beginning of this argue. I joined in middle of it, and now you accuse me that I still want to argue. No, I don't. Go the - off, and don't ever say a word to me. Don't write anything what is in connection with me. Thanks. [quote="King"]Like i said i just found it funny how you think pepper > fireball, i have NO ****ING IDEA WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST AND ALL OF ITS BULL****.STOP ****ING INCLUDING ME INTO THAT CRAP.[/quote] Won't discuss here about these guns, but calling someone's opinion 'funny' WHILE YOU PLAYED WITH THAT OVER 10 YEARS, is honestly, nothing just a bullshit. Let's get an example: FIFA is going to implement HAWK EYE system in football, like it's in tennis. So refs could see on monitor was the ball in or out of the bounds. Some players and former players find it ridiculous, including Rooney, Inzaghi, Figo, Iniesta, Vidic, Kolarov... but they weren't ridiculed by crowd. [quote="King"]great "you're not welcome here" cant w8 for you to spit on me behind my back and please do equal this to my "talking behind toni's back by commenting on a public ladder"[/quote] If you were talking to me, and I hope you didn't, I can guarantee I won't do anything like that. I'm not such a pig.

Anubis, your attempt to reason is very much considered, thank you for that, but i've read all comments now(skipped veg cooba anu urbz and sean comments) and honestly too much stuff has been said so il say it all myself. About hell clan. I was against that, i told ragnarok and moti to stop doing that (that really was bullying) however they didnt belive so, they truly believed there was no harm being done. Also they stopped after it was obviously clear it was just so. As for [f*ck toni], i did not ask them to stop doing that but i was a bit unsure what it was. i heard a lot of different versions about FT but they all lead to toni. Call it bullying call it insulting i dont mind(nor do i care,personally i dont find it worth crying). However... ... you guys have absolutely ZERO rights to talk about bullying. They way you were leading this forum was always unfair. I still remember a lot of kicks form grytolle for golden reasons. 1. Kicked out of ZA becuz i asked him t kick out succer for insulting me but got kicked instead with a message (noob) when i got back gry says "cant you take a joke king XD" 2.Again on za (well this wasnt a kick but its still shit way of acting) jjb was insulting becuz i "lagged" again i called grytolle and instead of kicking him he just started talking to him in german or whatever language. 3. playing in zd grytlle was my teammate he was w8ting for the seek pu in semi, came and shot it before he did (timing) and he kicks me off with a message "typo". 4. (wasnt a kick but a kill command sue me) Playing on semi again anubis and me vs chill and gry anubis kill chillax i score and kill grytolle while defending Grytolle: /k king.Normally i went to complain to nerd about it cuz i couldnt take it anymore, but he just told me "i cant do anything, idont have time to deal with those. Then there was that MS and his "he's acting like he pwns so much" which was a complete stupid thing to say and you guys had so much fun making fun of him which pretty much proves what cooba said "some people do such stupid things that they deserve to be mocked". About SR and him bullying you. You guys bullied him aswell as his teammates really.. i think every single player was flaming the crap out of him. If you were bothered by what slayer said then you care too much what people think of you. There was also that zd cleanup. it was very often that we were playing some random 3 vs 3's in zd's then suddenly a group of CC-ers would come. And when we finished the 3 vs 3 we found ourselves all kicked out of the server so CC can have its training. And okay i would have gotten over it if there werent for another free zd and a bullshit server called CC treninz which was ALWAYS empty.and in recent events there were a lot of SR posts of which it contained nothing else than to troll (pwn) someone and noone was doing anything about it. Becuz people who were trolled were ahmo motaz mourad iustyn and such (peple who weren t CC at that time and were newcomers) but nothing was than cuz they werent CC-ers. It seems like you're capable of making trolling jokes but when someone posts a single word about you ya all get defensive. Now i am expecting to hear some "yeah nice to post things about the past king", is it in the past?You talk about "talking behind someone's back" and yet say gry could you remind me who told sue "why dont you like playing with hakum, it cant be becuz he's an idiot, becuz i know you like playing with king XD" Even in this thread toni used term "idiots" more than once and nothing was done about it. If Cx wrote that about you the posts would certantly be deleted no equallity which was always there is what bothers me greatly and then you even have the nerves to call US a bully. The same rules never aplied to us. It was always like CC doing and saying whatever they felt like, but whenever we made a joke theyd get all offensive, put out old logs and turn into one giant drama.

Alright, first, 'idiot / idiotic' isn't nothing in comparing with FT and all other insults by CX members, and former iR members. I don't see anyone did something IMPORTANT to them, so this makes no sense at all. Talking about kicks from past, in this thread, makes no sense, too. If I would want, I could sue some peoples for doing idiotic things, like /k while spectating, to a player who's playing. Like /forcespectate all on while there's a match going on, and lots of other commands like /r and /c, but no, I won't do it because it's so lame. It happened to me a lot of times, when I find 4 players, including me, and we prepare for a match, and someone joins and unspectates. He takes our 10 minutes and someone has to go, and we don't even start a match. You say why didn't I insult SR too? Well I did in beginning, but I realized it leads to nowhere. He was mastering ignoring, and I couldn't do anything, so I stopped it after short time. Then I decided to change identity. And don't try to make this CC (RDS?) vs CX war. It's YOUR TEAMMATES who started FT thing, it's YOU who started this thread, and it's YOU who is actually trying to make this look like CX vs CC (RDS??) war.