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" it was very often that we were playing some random 3 vs 3's in zd's then suddenly a group of CC-ers would come. And when we finished the 3 vs 3 we found ourselves all kicked out of the server so CC can have its training" Feel free to contact a Zeal admin about it in such cases. So far I, as an admin, have not received any complaints about "getting kicked so CC can have its training".. Also, Grytolle is no longer a Zeal admin. I believe it's inappropriate to bring up power abuse cases of someone who realized their mistakes and voluntarily gave up their admin powers later. As for trolling here on the forum, you can always report such posts to the admins and moderators, not all of which are CCers. If you feel like CC are abusing their powers, try to do something about it when it happens rather than bringing it up during an argument about bullying. And Toni is right, don't make this a war. You can't make generalizations about all of CC. Have I ever abused my powers in favour of CC? If so, please tell me :)

You're just anxious to get the best out of me aren't you? Let lithium and gry tell you what i am like when i am ACTUALLY insulting. They have a bunch of my deleted posts. This is nothing. Bad joke? call it a bad joke, my clanmates had a good laugh of it, and personally i dont give a fucking damn what you say anymore. This was just a joke not an insulting attempt or anything. I would go a lot more far were my intentions were to insult. When it comes to joking it allso matters the person who's making it. If the person has bad "relationship" with the "victim" clearly it will end badly, i thought however that this would not be the case. Dont quite know what made you to get so offensive against me, can be just this little sentence. I avoided that hell and FT shit a lot more than other Cx-ers. And you still have the nerves to claim my intentions were to smite you. You dont wanna stop this drama? you wanna have a war? you want me to start ACTUALLY insulting? Drop this toni, i alrdy said i wont say anther thing about you. But if you decide to be a persistent nuisance then you're gonna have a really bad time. Dont pretend to be all mature, mature person would ignore this and simply let it go.

"You say why didn't I insult SR too? Well I did in beginning, but I realized it leads to nowhere. He was mastering ignoring, and I couldn't do anything, so I stopped it after short time. Then I decided to change identity." I never said this. I said you care too much what others think of you if you find what slayer says insulting. Noone give much of a damn about his insulting. "And don't try to make this CC (RDS?) vs CX war. It's YOUR TEAMMATES who started FT thing, it's YOU who started this thread, and it's YOU who is actually trying to make this look like CX vs CC (RDS??) war." Bullshit Anubis:i tried to complain to nerd as i've said. That had a lot of efect

[quote="King"]Even in this thread toni used term "idiots" more than once and nothing was done about it.[/quote] Excuse me? Ever since the beginning of this discussion I kept removing the term whenever I considered it as referring to a specific person or a group of people (which is a condition that makes it qualify as a personal attack).

Ah i see. Sorry se but people often post stuff while im writting, and im often busy for days dont get to catch this kind of stuff. Its still a shame CC's allowing it (toni writting idiots). Thanks for help anyways.

I really would not like to take part in this, but since the other people here seem to be unable to settle things without getting called for RDS conspiracy or something, I have to try it myself. King, I do not know about all of your incidents with Gry/other CC members in the past, but you once again bring up stuff that doesn't give you any justification to not feel sorry for what you have done. I have seen your very aggressive style of accusing people, most of the time your accusations seem rather questionable, like if you were always expecting someone to have something against you, so that you can accuse them 'in advance' about something what you think they are gonna do. Meanwhile you also seem to be very sensitive about when people accuse you of having done something wrong. You make a lot of noise about what you consider as insulting, and what you don't. And finally, you feel so insulted about this that you start considering the other people as aggressive as you are at that moment. I ask you to calm down for once, and to think again why is this discussion/dispute still going on. I know you can do better at least. Or maybe you do realize that, but you still feel that you have the justification to hold your aggressive stance, because you consider yourself just defending against injustice. That is nothing more but a delusion, trust me. As for all of the hatred people here, Toni never initiated with trying to stop his bullies. It was an initiation of admins, and we decided that your "joke" has been going on for too long, and you have gone too far, and we had to do something, since we never before really tried to limit the more subtle bullying that people sometimes do. So in that sense it is pointless to blame Toni for complaining to the admins about a "simple joke" that he would have taken too serious. Whatever he has said back to you was well provoked by you, although it is wrong from him to flame back as well. But whatever he has said or done that doesn't have anything to do with you, can't be considered as provocation to flame him. It needs nothing more but a bit of self-discipline. Having said this from a 100% neutral point of view, I finally hope you realize that this thing should come to an end, and that it isn't a verbal clan war with the other "team" having admins on their side. It would be a good time to stop being overly sarcastic towards everything that seems to be clashing with your opinions even just a bit. This post in short: Please behave!

in this discussion there are many references to motifs which depart from main theme. im not sure if its necessary. a person likes some other person, then he loves another one, then he hates next one, and then any different one he can have deep in his ass. it is like that overall in the world and its all normal and everyone knows it. its a truth that bullying others is not appropriate and, yes, i admit that myself. from my side it is like this: i personally dont go for toni. yes, i am one of main bellwethers of bullying or talking behind tonis back. no, i am not really nice (more or less softly said) to most jj2 players. i cannot change it much. i like to be rude to some of you. i dont know why - i just find it great, or i simply find some of you more or less idiotic and irritating that much that i cant behave right to you. however, im aware of some of my ugly acts which i commit to certain people. i see that the case went too far and my behaviour against toni is wrong and intemperate, also i exaggerated with stuff as [ft]. i personally would like to apologize you, toni, for hurting you. so i apologize. but i dont like you still.

Warning: This will be a very lengthy post. Please scroll down to the tldr-section if you don’t want to take the time to wade through it. [u]Introduction: incomplete amateuristic discourse analysis[/u] A few pages down the line, this discussion has progressed a bit. If you look back at the earlier pages, you can discern a clear pattern in the posts by CXers: King and cooba explicitly attempt to trivialize the matter and moti implicitly doing the same by writing off-topic posts about for example urinary calculi. In the later pages, fortunately, King has actually voiced some of his own grievances. Seeing as he mentioned my name 10 times, it is obviously that I owe him some explanation and excuses. So here goes. But first, I need to make a quick detour into the world of rhetorics. [u]Part 1: Tu quoque[/u] Tu quoque is a Latin phrase which I used to denote a certain kind of argument. It literally means “you too” and is also referred to as the appeal to hypocrisy. In rhetorics it is considered a fallacy (an unjust argument), an “improper logical form”, because eventhough it seems as though it supports your point, it strictly logically speaking doesn’t. For example, if I steal something from you, it doesn’t give you the right to steal. Stealing remains an immoral action. However, true as that may be from a strictly logical point of view, we shouldn’t only concern ourselves with assigning guilt, but also with resolving our conflicts and differences. Obviously, my kicking King from a server for stealing a power-up from me doesn’t give him the right to bully Toni. I would agree with him, though, that if I have been bullying him (not an unreasonable conclusion, as we will see below), I don’t have any moral ground to stand on if I were to attempt to lecture him. What does this mean? This means that I, personally, shouldn’t be lecturing King on bullying - or at the very least that King needn’t pay much attention to such a lecture from me. However, I haven’t been lecturing him. The people who have accused him of bullying Toni here (atleast the ones that spring to mind) were Vegito, Anubis, Urbs and Superjazz. Vegito, we can safely ignore, because everyone knows about the issues between him and CX in general by now. It might be tempting to ignore Anubis as well, since he is a CC member and a Zeal admin. However, and correct me if I’m wrong, I have never known Anubis to bully, nor abuse his powers. On the other hand, he frequently picks the “CC-side” in discussions, whether that side actually has something to do with CC (like the whole drama after the latest RDS-CX clanwar), or whether it is not really a CC-related issue, such as it is in this case. But let’s leave Anubis out for the sake of argument. That leaves us with Urbs and Superjazz. In the case of Superjazz, we have basically the same story as with Anubis, except that he is much less loosely tied to CC than Anubis is. On JJ2, he quite consistently expresses his own viewpoint or that of -t3> (and occasionally that of the JJnet crew). So you would be well-adviced to actually pay attention to what Superjazz writes, atleast if you are genuinely interested in listening to criticism of you. Urbs, however, is about as neutral as you can get in this case. Granted, it is well-known that he and I are pretty close friends, but I would still argue that he is someone whose opinions you should actually try to take in. Back when I was both a real ZD admin and a JJnet admin, he was one of the loudest critics of my action (and those of others), which, in my opinion, speaks to his integrity. Furthermore, his criticisms are, for the most part, rather objective, atleast if you peel away the occasional hyperbole. In short, I can understand why you wouldn’t want to listen to me if I were to, arguably hypocritically, give you a moral lecture on bullying, but you [i]should[/i] try and listen to others, atleast when they do their best to argue in a reasonable way with you, like Anubis, Urbs and Superjazz have. Two wrongs don’t make a right. [u]Part 2: Victims remember[/u] An important thing to remember in cases like this, is that the two people involved in a potentially abusive situation won’t perceive it in the same way. This, along with internet dehumanization, explains quite well how nice people can become bullies without even realizing. I’ll run through my personal experience with the phenomenon, and then you can see if, perhaps, it applies to you too. When I was a real Zeal admin, I often kicked people. Often it was well-deserved, but many times it wasn’t (and often it was “just a joke” - that is, it was a joke to me, and sometimes to the person I kicked too, but far from always). Morever, I never had the stones to hold my friends up to the same standards as my foes, especially not in the heat of the moment. That’s why I didn’t make for a very good Zeal admin and once I comprehended just how bad I had been at the job, I quit. Anyway, when I kicked someone, I didn’t think much of it. To me, it was nothing. “y so serious xd it’s just a kick, just rj lol”. What I didn’t realize, atleast not well enough, was what it felt like to the other person. How they would remember it. So they would remember it, and I would have forgotten all about it the next day. That’s how you can continue doing the same thing over and over, without realizing when it’s too much. Once I was sufficiently called out on it in discussions on JJnet, I finally began to realize the extent of my power abuse in the Zeal servers. Why not sooner? Because it is much easier to ignore someone who flames you than someone who tries to reason with you, especially if the person in question feels neutral to you. People I respected were the ones who swayed me, especially Urbs and JJBynny. There is a corollary to be found with the victim, however. Even when you are kicked for good reason, you will still think of it as power abuse if the kicking is done by a person who has previously kicked you unjustly. [u]Part 3: History repeats itself[/u] The sad part is that it’s easy to relapse. Having had that kind of epiphany once, doesn’t make you immune from falling into the same dumb pattern. I already mentioned above that it’s reasonable to say that I’ve been bullying you, King. And I experience a kind of miniature flashback to when I quit as a Zeal admin when I read your posts. It’s the same thing all over again but on a smaller scale. Teasing/kicking/what -have-you you on JJ2, sometimes as a joke (and sometimes perceived as such by you), sometimes because I’m actually angry at you. Sure, sometimes you start the fight, sometimes I do, but the bottom-line remains that I should be mature enough to stop and apologize whether I mean it or not, not to mention that I am in a position of power, whereas you’re not. I will now go over the specific occasions that you have mentioned here, explaining myself and apologizing where I feel it is appropriate. Even if I will discard some of your allegations, I know that you could have thought of several other better examples of times when I have acted abusively towards you, so please don’t take it as if I am trying to explain away everything I’ve ever done to you. Here goes: [quote]1. Kicked out of ZA becuz i asked him t kick out succer for insulting me but got kicked instead with a message (noob) when i got back gry says "cant you take a joke king XD"[/quote] The only possible scenario where kicking you would maybe be justified is if you had recently been flaming Sucer or someone else and then had the audacity to ask me to kick Sucer for it. Even if that were so, it is obvious from the kick message and the following line that I was more interested in provoking you than resolving the situation. [quote]2.Again on za (well this wasnt a kick but its still shit way of acting) jjb was insulting becuz i "lagged" again i called grytolle and instead of kicking him he just started talking to him in german or whatever language.[/quote] This is a nice example of a case where we perceive the situation differently. To me, it seemed as though I was called to the server for a silly reason (discussions about lag are pretty commonplace on JJ2). Apparently, though, you looked up to me and wanted me to help you resolve the issue with JJB? Either way, it could also be considered an example of me treating friends differently than others, so yes, in retrospect I guess I should have done more to help you there. You probably don’t want to hear it, but maybe it can help you see similar tendencies in yourself, so: at the time I, and many with me, considered you to be just another angry noob (same goes for pretty much all of CDF). It had more than a grain of truth to it, but that isn’t much of an excuse. (I am guessing you guys perceive Toni in a similar way, though I should be careful judging you by cooba’s posts) [quote]3. playing in zd grytlle was my teammate he was w8ting for the seek pu in semi, came and shot it before he did (timing) and he kicks me off with a message "typo".[/quote] Two wrongs don’t make a right: you were acting like a complete noob (around the same time as 2., right?) stealing the powerup from me, but kicking you, provoked as it was, was still power abuse and I should have just stopped the game and told you that either you quit playing, or I will. [quote]4. (wasnt a kick but a kill command sue me) Playing on semi again anubis and me vs chill and gry anubis kill chillax i score and kill grytolle while defending Grytolle: /k king.[/quote] I am sure that you are leaving something out here, but I can’t remember what (but probably a 3hk), so whatever. I am pretty sure that you used /k on me and others around the time too, however, so I’ll just say “you too” to that one. [u]Appendix: Miscallenous replies[/u] [quote]Then there was that MS and his "he's acting like he pwns so much" which was a complete stupid thing to say and you guys had so much fun making fun of him which pretty much proves what cooba said "some people do such stupid things that they deserve to be mocked".[/quote] Yep, CC as a whole has been mean to MS, on the other hand, we MS we have always resolved our issues with eachother. I suggest you do the same. Your point is well taken, though, though it sounds as though you think of it as a justification, rather than a the poor excuse that it is: "some people do such stupid things that they deserve to be mocked". Cooba seemingly embraces that attitude wholeheartedly, but I, while I sometimes act in such a way, have the decency not to be proud of it. I hope the same applies to you. [quote]About SR and him bullying you. You guys bullied him aswell as his teammates really.. i think every single player was flaming the crap out of him. If you were bothered by what slayer said then you care too much what people think of you.[/quote] As far as I know, the SR business wasn’t bullying, but a series of flamewar between him and JJnet admins/CCers/CDFers/etc. (Unless you mean that Toni, not being in any position of power whatsoever, managed to somehow bully an entire clan on his own, which is a ridiculous thought.) Like you can see later on in this thread, it is a good idea for you to try to write as clearly as possible so that people know who you are accusing of what. Otherwise you shouldn’t be surprised when you are misunderstood and get angry and/or have to say “I never said this”. [quote]It was very often that we were playing some random 3 vs 3's in zd's then suddenly a group of CC-ers would come. And when we finished the 3 vs 3 we found ourselves all kicked out of the server so CC can have its training.[/quote] Either you’re talking about the time before clear rules were set to resolve that matter, which is really pushing it, or you just refuse to accept the rules that were arrived at. If you were nolonger playing and others wanted to play, it’s their turn. Then add to that the rule that says that players decide who gets to spectate. [quote]And okay i would have gotten over it if there werent for another free zd and a bullshit server called CC treninz which was ALWAYS empty.[/quote] That last part just isn’t true - What the hell, dude? Also, I am pretty sure that we always checked which ZD had the least people in it, but it had to be a ZD that had a player limit allowing a 3v3 (the servers used to have several different playerlimits). [quote]In recent events there were a lot of SR posts of which it contained nothing else than to troll (pwn) someone and noone was doing anything about it. Becuz people who were trolled were ahmo motaz mourad iustyn and such (peple who weren t CC at that time and were newcomers) but nothing was than cuz they werent CC-ers.[/quote] JJnet has always had the policy of allowing trolling and flamewars until we feel it has gotten out of hand, so what do you want from us? If your friends are trolled, it’s your responsibility to stand up for them, not ours. If things get out of hand, though, you can reasonably expect some action by the JJnet crew. Also, plenty of people had called it power abuse in the past when we cracked down on SR for flaming and trolling people. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. We try to tolerate SR up to a point, and then he gets banned again. If you have a better solution, feel free to notify us. [quote]It seems like you're capable of making trolling jokes but when someone posts a single word about you ya all get defensive.[/quote] Not sure who “ya all” is in this case, but if I’m included, I try my best to let things slide on JJnet. Why wouldn’t people be defensive when you make accusations? The only difference is that many of “us all”, whoever that is, actually write in a clear enough manner for others to have atleast an idea of what we’re trying to say. (Congratulations on more or less succeeding in doing so in this post by the way :p) [quote]Now i am expecting to hear some "yeah nice to post things about the past king", is it in the past?[/quote] Others have proven this prediction of yours right in this thread, but I’d like to point out that I’m not supportive of them telling you to be quiet when you bring up old stuff (see above). You bring them up because they’re still bothering you and everyone should respect that. [quote]You talk about "talking behind someone's back" and yet say gry could you remind me who told sue "why dont you like playing with hakum, it cant be becuz he's an idiot, becuz i know you like playing with king XD"[/quote] Here I differ from the people you have been... let’s call it “discussing” with in this thread so far. They might think that it is horrible thing to talk behind someone else’s back, but I don’t. I think it’s much better to release your anger in a way that the other person doesn’t notice than to escalate things by saying it to their face. Of course, it doesn’t work if the person you’re talking to goes and tells the other person. I have expressed this opinion several times. [quote]Even in this thread toni used term "idiots" more than once and nothing was done about it.[/quote] (SE handled this one already) [quote]If Cx wrote that about you the posts would certantly be deleted no equallity which was always there is what bothers me greatly and then you even have the nerves to call US a bully. The same rules never aplied to us. It was always like CC doing and saying whatever they felt like, but whenever we made a joke theyd get all offensive, put out old logs and turn into one giant drama.[/quote] Aside from the fact that you at this point stop trying to distance yourself from the actions of your clanmates, how is it unequal? Far from all flaming by CXers is removed. (Ask moti if you don’t believe me). As far as CC and CX are concerned, I guess you could say we take different approaches (if I may make a crude generalization). You guys either flame or act like you’re too cool to care, whereas we either flame or try to reason with people (obviously the latter is better). See above for the issue of whether some CCers bullying you (like you claim, but I wouldn’t agree with that as far as other CCers are concerned) gives you the right to bully Toni, who is pretty much an outsider eventhough he is in CC. (It’s not like people are thinking of Kiiyuka as a bully just because she’s in CX). There is also the difference in numbers. For a long time Toni was one person against a bunch of you. [quote]Let lithium and gry tell you what i am like when i am ACTUALLY insulting.[/quote] Unfortunately for you, what matters isn’t what you consider insulting, but what the other person considers insulting. The fact that you often flame even harder isn’t a very strong defense. The same thing goes for this sentence: “I avoided that hell and FT shit a lot more than other Cx-ers”. You might be less in the wrong than others, but that isn’t much of a defense either. [b][u]Too lazy, didn’t read / Conclusion[/u][/b] I might think you are wrong about some thing you mention, King, but I’ve definitely done enough things to you to owe you an apology. I am sorry for being mean to you and I promise that I’ll try my best to stop (though I can’t promise it’ll last forever if you keep getting yourself into this kind of heated discussions). It’s easier to ignore abuse when you’re the perpetrator, because you don’t realize the extent of it until you see it all lined up. That you’re a very provactive person does help to explain my actions, but it doesn’t excuse them. My bullying you (albeit not in the strictest sense of the word) does justify your trying to take revenge (however, seeking revenge isn’t really constructive) on me, criticizing me and bringing up old business, but it certainly doesn’t give you or anyone else the right to systematically be mean to Toni. Also, if you’re actually interested in resolving issues with people, you really should try to listen, at the very least to express yourself more clearly and to tone down your aggressive style. Occasionally you have done so to some degree, and I hope you notice that you get much more useful responses in those cases. Please try to see the parallels (though there are obviously differences) between how I treat you and how Toni is treated by you and others (it really is hard for me to tell how much of it is by you and how much of it is by people associated with you) and maybe you will see the value of self-restraint (treating people better than you think they deserve), apologies, and... stuff. And lastly, be careful with [i]just a joke[i]’s, because they often aren’t so “just” on the other end. [u]Reply to moti who posted just before I was done[/u] That’s a nice and honest post. I hope Toni will appreciate it for what it is. (As always I am too tired to read through my posts after I’ve been writing for hours, so sorry if some things are still unclear).

My god thats a lot of words, thank god moti told me about "Too lazy, didn’t read / Conclusion" otherwise i would have never even looked it. I might be wrong about it, but might be not,some of the stuff happened long time ago so noone can say for certain what who meant what,but your line sums it up nicely "And lastly, be careful with [i]just a joke[i]’s, because they often aren’t so “just” on the other end." Revenge is a harsh word, i would not bother myself to go trough the hustle ,but if a bird crapped on your head or something, that'd put a smile on my face, i'l give you that. Its very true that i get aggressive at times and doesn't help the situation one bit, once i calmed down however i try to make it more smoothly and reasonable but by that time its alrdy too late. I do admit i like to get into arguments, however this was not the case, tho my bad reputation played a very important role here(As well as the veg scoring on cto opportunities). The reason why i brought up old business is plainly despite that you resolved it with ms, you havent said a word to me. About how i treat toni. What exactly did i do? i took almost no part in that FT thingy, was plainly doing it since other Cx-ers were doing it knowing like less than 20% about it and i got bored of it after less than a day(after that "FT" was out of my point of view and everything that followed was unrelated and unknown to me,lately i was also a lot busy so i guess i missed a lot of stuff). It was my own fault however that i reacted too aggressive which probably made it hard for you to try to reason with me. But you gotta understand that it felt for me like ron deleted that comment out of pure spite because he saw i was the one who posted it(take it from my point of view, a comment which did not seem all that offensive was taken out as an insult), i honestly did not know things got serious between toni and my clanmates so this came out as a huge shock and drama and it looked like you were just trying to use that as an excuse. I am sorry for the trouble and misunderstanding that occurred. I'l try to be more clear and lot less aggressive, atleast here on the jjnet.

;_; only thing left to do is wait for Urbs's response.

[IMG]http://iv.pl/images/15676338980515944382.jpg[/IMG]

Without even knowing what you guys are talking about, i can almost be 99% sure that king is wrong, for obvious reasons.

Dat timing...

I dont think explaining in pages why what they did is wrong is gonna change their future behaviour or anything. They might stop flaming/trolling for a while after this circus, but the most efficient way to deal with such people would be to ban them temporary from commenting imo. So when they post something offensive you'd warn them once (or twice) and if they keep doing it, you'd forbid them from posting for a month or two. - just an idea :)

[quote="Andrei"]Without even knowing what you guys are talking about, i can almost be 99% sure that king is wrong, for obvious reasons.[/quote] Next time read the thread first, then make comments about King. He [i]did[/i] do something wrong, but he apologized for it and I hope we won't be seeing such things happen again. I think everything related to [u]King and Toni[/u] has been settled, yes? The thread brings up some other interesting issues (such as some other people's relations towards Toni), but I think this should be locked for now. If a higher admin disagrees, then feel free to unlock it.

[quote="i:m"]i personally would like to apologize you, toni, for hurting you. so i apologize. but i dont like you still. [/quote] There, you proved my point. I said you're not idiot, but you sometimes act like that. Apologize acceptet (and I honestly hope you're not acting, like gienka acted on skype). I can't do much to change your opinion about me, you don't need to like me, I don't ask you or anyone to like me, but I please you all not to insult without proper reason. Apologize accepted! Just don't do silly things like you did. And just know, I don't expect us to have some great friendship. Not because of what happened, it's because we know we don't like each other. I apologize to you if you were insulted at any time. [quote="King"]i took almost no part in that FT thingy, was plainly doing it since other Cx-ers were doing it knowing like less than 20% about it and i got bored of it after less than a day[/quote] I can't believe you about this. Sorry, maybe you're telling the truth, but it's really weird - wearing a tag without knowing what it means, and knowing that it could have something with me (as you said 'I knew it has to do something with toni') is really suspicious, and looks like you lie (at least it looks like that for me). Sorry if I am wrong. [quote="King"]i honestly did not know things got serious between toni and my clanmates[/quote] This is something I didn't know too. It's cooba and moti after him who first started to flame me, however, cooba has been doing it for ages, from JDC 17 or so. However, moti joined him soon after that, and I still don't know why, but it's not important now, when we apologized for our mistakes. I am badly surprised when I saw Rag had something in that story. I considered him for a nice and honest person. Seems like he's a 2-faced guy, even thought I never thought it. [quote="Andrei"]Without even knowing what you guys are talking about, i can almost be 99% sure that king is wrong, for obvious reasons.[/quote] This is something what I really hate. Maybe he's wrong, maybe he is not. Don't post silly comments like that, please. I don't say King is not wrong or I am not wrong. But tell me, if you like Pepe, and you don't like Messi, and if Pepe stands on Messi's hand, does it mean Pepe is innocent, and Messi is wrong for lying down and not watching for Pepe where's he gonna stand on? [quote="Reni"]I dont think explaining in pages why what they did is wrong is gonna change their future behaviour or anything. They might stop flaming/trolling for a while after this circus, but the most efficient way to deal with such people would be to ban them temporary from commenting imo. So when they post something offensive you'd warn them once (or twice) and if they keep doing it, you'd forbid them from posting for a month or two. - just an idea[/quote] What a great suggestion! The thing I don't like here is that you put me in the same bracket with King. Maybe you didn't want it, but you did actually. I am really offended. If you didn't mean to do it, then it's okay! Read your post again, and after that find a post where I insulted someone like he did. I don't remember when I insulted someone, so hard to remember (I know I said something to cooba long time ago, and to Artem, too, but it was not only me - doesn't make me innocent, tho). If it was the thing what made your point of view bad about me, then it's bad luck for me. I am not a person like that.

[quote="Lithium"]I think everything related to [u]King and Toni[/u] has been settled, yes? The thread brings up some other interesting issues (such as some other people's relations towards Toni), but I think this should be locked for now. If a higher admin disagrees, then feel free to unlock it.[/quote]Locking a discussion is what you do when it is deteriorating beyond salvation. This one has taken a positive turn.

this thread is beyond stupid, but i decided to reply: no i still think you are a cheater for that ss3 contest - getting your clanmates and people to vote for you without them having even seen the other levels, in other words, people to vote for you who otherwise would not have. that's not two-faced because i've said it publically. with regards to fireball, i thought you were just being defensive because you were afraid of change, but then the thought of you actually using gun8 to defend the base in silwi was ridiculous. I said this FT thing as a joke then i left it (you can probably find a ladder screen of me wearing it). it escalated quickly and i didnt have any part of it as it went further. i really dont care about what comes next but i think it was an idiotic decision to open this thread up or allow this to further escalate. anyone with a brain-cell, please close it immediately. think of me what you like, but that's all.

Leave me out of this Toni, please.

"getting your clanmates and people to vote for you without them having even seen the other levels, in other words, people to vote for you who otherwise would not have" I did see the other levels, just saying.

Hi Anubis

[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/578427_323568117764980_952130319_n.jpg[/img]

if i remember well, king never wore an [ft] tag.

while this thread is taking a positive turn (except for kenny who was just trying to be a hater) i can see some stuff were still not explained properly. Yes i did use a FT tag but for a really short while so its not a miracle you didnt notice.I dont think there's even one ladder of me wearing it(1 tops). I noticed moti ahmo using it(and at that time it was more or less who was active in cx) and i started to use it too. But... when i asked about it i got a "XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD HAHAHAHAAHAHAAH, :> just wear it kay? :>"instead of an explanation and i quickly dropped the tag due to the fact i found it to look ugly (preferred KingCx). After that i more or less went idle for a period of time, didnt even come to skype much (it can all be seen in ladders, as you can see it was mostly ahmo/aimane with moti) which is why i said that i probably missed a lot of stuff that happened. I am perfectly aware why you find it hard to belive, moti and i are close friends and obviously i should have known about this but eh sh*t happens. The reason why i knew it was about you is becuz later i found some people talking about it but ignored it thinking it was nothing serious and well the rest is out here in this thread. Edit: didnt even notice this somehow "What a great suggestion! The thing I don't like here is that you put me in the same bracket with King. Maybe you didn't want it, but you did actually. I am really offended. If you didn't mean to do it, then it's okay! Read your post again, and after that find a post where I insulted someone like he did. I don't remember when I insulted someone, so hard to remember (I know I said something to cooba long time ago, and to Artem, too, but it was not only me - doesn't make me innocent, tho). If it was the thing what made your point of view bad about me, then it's bad luck for me. I am not a person like that." Ironically you insulted the sh*t out of me right there, in case you really didnt notice. Do try to be more carefull with your comments especially after the things started to go in a "positive direction". I just got a huge lecture of "be carefull what you write" and then you go along posting that.

[quote="Ragnarok"]no i still think you are a cheater for that ss3 contest - getting your clanmates and people to vote for you without them having even seen the other levels, in other words, people to vote for you who otherwise would not have.[/quote] 2 things here: 1) Like you never got help from your friends in such a situation 2) It was a money contest. Since $40 for you in UK is nothing hard to add on steam account, and we can't do it in Serbia, I found it somehow satisfied to just win the prize. It's probably not cheating, because all of them saw all levels for the contest (BE SURE OF THAT, AS YOU ARE SURE THAT SEA IS DEEP), and I pleased them to vote, they weren't forced or anything like that. It was their will to do so. Finally I see who you really are, you were pretending to be nice to me, but now... it's ok, I at least know who thinks what about me. :cossack: [quote="King"]Ironically you insulted the sh*t out of me right there, in case you really didnt notice. Do try to be more carefull with your comments especially after the things started to go in a "positive direction". I just got a huge lecture of "be carefull what you write" and then you go along posting that.[/quote] My bad for not explaining it as I mean. It's not telling that you sux or anything, I just don't want her to think that I started the whole thing, while I was inactive. [quote]if i remember well, king never wore an [ft] tag. [/quote] Judging by his story, I thought he wore it. (Now he says he did for a short time)