I started playing this online from 2007, and I can say this - Warrior used to be one of the best, if not the best K/D players. I haven't played that much games with nor against him because of his inactivity, but I can say that he is one of the best out there. I always respected him. Sorry Veg, but you are right after him . Then following by Faw, CJ, Kenny, Grytolle etc. I don't count known cheaters because I don't know for how long did they cheat. But this question is really hard to answer, indeed. I'd like to see some oldies respond.
I started playing this online from 2007, and I can say this - Warrior used to be one of the best, if not the best K/D players. I haven't played that much games with nor against him because of his inactivity, but I can say that he is one of the best out there. I always respected him. Sorry Veg, but you are right after him :D . Then following by Faw, CJ, Kenny, Grytolle etc. I don't count known cheaters because I don't know for how long did they cheat. But this question is really hard to answer, indeed. I'd like to see some oldies respond.
I really wonder why ya think that. I am a newbie so i dunno why the hell would anyone here be the best player.
[quote="Grytolle"]It's Vegito :p[/quote]
I really wonder why ya think that. I am a newbie so i dunno why the hell would anyone here be the best player.
Saying "Vegito's the best ever" isn't 100% historical approach to answering the subject. I remember in 2011-2012, I was reading ladder results and I was so surprised to see that my teammates CJ and JJB beat FawFul and Vegito in a 2v2 ladder. That was very telling to me, because I already had seen that FawFul is a top-tier player, and Vegito as well. Both FawFul and Vegito really already proved themselves in National Tournament, to be honest. I would've already said that the entire Dutch national team was elite, when they had Faw, Veg, Chiyu, and MS. That was their basic team when the Nederlands won the 2011 NT. But my point is, even now, when I happened to see CC training for a clanwar, or maybe the playoffs of last season, I noticed Vegito had amazing stats, TBH. He was only just warming up, but - it's like, say if Ray Allen (a basketball player who's not on any team ATM) decided to join a team, he'd obviously have to warm up before jumping in a game. But if he ends up making 30/35 three-pointers, then it's clear he's one of the best shooters, even if those stats are just from warming up.
I want to write more about this, it's better than ignoring the subject entirely, but it would be frustrating to just make a post, that isn't honestly well-thought-out. Basically, I want to think about this question, and give a better answer after considering it more deeply. And, writing 1 paragraph about just Vegito, it's not really making a fair or balanced argument for anyone, when there's multiple candidates IMO. (Or so to say, if I had just a list of players, that would essentially be an invalid point, when I was just making a note about Veg after JJ said he has no idea why he'd be in this thread.)
Also anyway, this thread wasn't even started in a serious manner, still that doesn't mean it's not worth actually discussing the idea, lol.. I'm just saying, it's a valid question, rather than just being a "first comment wins" post, xd.
Saying "Vegito's the best ever" isn't 100% historical approach to answering the subject. I remember in 2011-2012, I was reading ladder results and I was so surprised to see that my teammates CJ and JJB beat FawFul and Vegito in a 2v2 ladder. That was very telling to me, because I already had seen that FawFul is a top-tier player, and Vegito as well. Both FawFul and Vegito really already proved themselves in National Tournament, to be honest. I would've already said that the entire Dutch national team was elite, when they had Faw, Veg, Chiyu, and MS. That was their basic team when the Nederlands won the 2011 NT. But my point is, even now, when I happened to see CC training for a clanwar, or maybe the playoffs of last season, I noticed Vegito had amazing stats, TBH. He was only just warming up, but - it's like, say if Ray Allen (a basketball player who's not on any team ATM) decided to join a team, he'd obviously have to warm up before jumping in a game. But if he ends up making 30/35 three-pointers, then it's clear he's one of the best shooters, even if those stats are just from warming up.
I want to write more about this, it's better than ignoring the subject entirely, but it would be frustrating to just make a post, that isn't honestly well-thought-out. Basically, I want to think about this question, and give a better answer after considering it more deeply. And, writing 1 paragraph about just Vegito, it's not really making a fair or balanced argument for anyone, when there's multiple candidates IMO. (Or so to say, if I had just a list of players, that would essentially be an invalid point, when I was just making a note about Veg after JJ said he has no idea why he'd be in this thread.)
Also anyway, this thread wasn't even started in a serious manner, still that doesn't mean it's not worth actually discussing the idea, lol.. I'm just saying, it's a valid question, rather than just being a "first comment wins" post, xd.
Double post, but: as MS thought I could be considered, I'll point out my recollectment of what I've done with JJ2, over the years, but mostly in plus-era CTF.
I had JJ2 since before 1.23, but there wasn't any serious competitive scene at first, obviously. This isn't the whole story of JJ2 as told by Splat, anyway. I think my 1st real CTF training was in [kr3w] clan, around 2006. We helped with making plus at first too, but: that's truly not relevent, there's a difference between the important contributors like Violet CLM, but he didn't play any ladders or clanwars. The conceptual difference is obvious.
So, in kr3w, with RedNinja, Ninja, Starfox, and often Ajazz and Becky (?) we really essentially trained JE every evening after school for maybe 2 months. I was in high school so I quit in order to join tackle football team for after school activities, łøł. But that was when I learned basic CTF mechanics, just in 2006. After that, I eventually joined [si] and went back to playing mostly battle, and also focusing on non-JJ2 stuff during 2007-2009 (I was probably active on JCF, actually.) :p
In summer 2010 I started again with CTF, only in Zeal Alpha. I think I remember some active people from there, Treylina, Iustyn, Kesha, others. I thought Iustyn was the best player, łøł. But I didn't check Zeal Duels until 2011.
So then, I started watching teamgames in ZD, until I got to know some people, and I was really quiet because I had to figure out how to read the languages like Polish, Romanian, German, even English, because my catchphrase in 2009-2010 was: "I don't speak language" (I was trying to learn Sinhalese, plus I was arguing that: oh yeah, College Park Maryland is older than language itself. Off-topic though). Anyway, I got into t3 during 2011. I mean, I could already play CTF, had to adapt to new CTF codes, but in terms of joining 1.24 servers after playing only 1.23: I had to adapt to the languages, because you still can't play teamgames until you can communicate fluidly, somehow.
Regardless, joining t3 I soon was determined to make this team a contender to win a ladder season. IIRC, season 3 we gained ranks rapidly once I joined, but GPW was already on the cusp of winning with a clanwar over VS. Season 4 I was still dedicated, we had a full season of training. I think I brought the scheduled trainings idea to t3, which later when I joined CDF we incorporated that too. It was basically about arranging a schedule so that everyone in the clan, or almost everyone, could make it at that time. Not that complex, just difficult for high-schoolers who have to work with the pre-defined HS schedule. In college, my schedule was flexible, at that time.
Anyway, we nearly won season 4, but the season was interrupted by the radar thing, and then also CX and IB were formed. We eventually lost a season-ending clanwar to CX, who won.
Well, season 5, I thought: we have to get other members with the motivation to win the season. Obviously we had ability to win the season, but if I'm the only one who wants to, it would never happen. I figure that I think Zerg decided, it's a good idea to try and win the season. (Prior to that, my idea was: we have to beat every ladder clan in at least 1 match or clanwar, xd.) Then I figured: I have to just rely on my teammates, they're just as strong as me, anyway. Anyway, JJB was mostly inactive this season, until playoffs. And, I didn't play at all once playoffs started. So, anyway t3 managed to win the season (the 1st one with official playoffs, not just a season-deciding clanwar). And regardless that CX only had 2 players for the final match, also: debatably we could've won season 4, but we agreed not to play any ladders, because that way we can wait until the CW against CX, so it could almost be an official final match (despite that, we could've won if we had even submitted ladders, but, the retrospective analysis just shows it was better with playoffs, IMHO).
Well, season 6, or next season in late 2012: IIRC, we got to 200 ladder points faster and easier than ever before. Personally I turned 21 in 2012, and at that time I started developing more muscle strength: at that point I figured I have better stamina than the teenagers, who were still in high school, so playing a 20-minute ladder never be physically tiring, only boring/annoying/frustrating but not like... "my hands will be sore after this ladder" - by 2012 I figured, that won't be the case for me: but maybe for others, if they were too young (physically not as developed) or just inexperienced with the keyboard position (for ppl new to JJ2).
Well, anyway, I actually quit t3 about when playoffs started. But then, I rejoined, just for the 1st round CW, however I missed the pre-CW training, and resulting in a loss by a small margin to CX. Also, Plumbe replaced me in 2nd round, also Owen almost replaced him. Well, that's probably in the videos section, it was my 1st official CW that I played for ladder, I think. Anyway, then I got rid of my computer because it was overheating, so I decided it's just trash, not really worth using in the 1st place since it overheats.
I mostly took a break from JJ2, in 2013 I wound up with a larger notebook computer. I noticed I can still play JJ2 decently enough, but I only casually paid attention to ladder. I just tried to give it a rest, basically. When JDC started I played a lot, maybe summer 2013. I won't worry about JDC on this topic - that's primarily not CTF teamgames, and really a different context other than this post. I mean I play for fun, but I can't discuss everything in 1 post.
IIRC, at the end of that JDC season I joined CDF. Then I figured: I don't plan to worry about ladder much, I thought after training with both t3 and CDF for their TB clanwar (when I wasn't in any clan) I'll join CDF, and I liked the help from CDF in testing my test level. (Thinking CDF could be a clan and a levelgrou, but again off-topic.) We played ladders regardless, also Kenny had joined CDF not toi long before I did. And Kenny was part of the GPW team which won season 3.
TBH IDK what season that was when I joined CDF. I think Jenny, Foly, and Artegor joined CDF in 2013 around when I did. And Jaguar left CDF, joining t3 about that time. (I was inspired because I liked Jaguar's tag of [CDF']. Well, I put a big effort in a laddee against T3, after I was in t3 pwning CDF, could I beat t3 as part of CDF? Somehow yes, in 3v3 ladder. 1st round was MS, Kenny and Jenny vs BR, Jag and Kev (CDF won 3-1 in TCS) and 2nd round was MS, Kenny and I vs BR, Jag and CJ (tied 2-2 in super). Not as big a deal as I would make it out to be, but by the time I left CDF in 2014, CDF at least had an active ladder team, as opposed to trying just to make enough points for a veto in a season. Although CDF was then a solid clan, just not that active in ladder, as they are now.
Well, in 2014 I really don't remember ever focusing alot on ladder, but I thought I was playing good during spring of that year. Especially I was saying: in random games, I had perfect teamplay with Sue, just for example. And at that time, I figured TD was becoming very good, Ahmo also becoming one of the best players. Actually I practically almost joined CX (I left CDF for a while, and later rejoined) but eventually didn't. I was gonna join VS even before that but I have to be realistic, 1 thing at a time. I trained with both VS and CX, anyway. Also, I skipped over 2013 NT, where I trained with both EU and PL-B for the championship match. I thought PL-B had a better (more complete) training session, and they indeed did win; I thought also Sue was a real leader of that team.
Well, in late 2014 after rejoining CDF, I played in a CTF playoff CW against CC. We lost but it was kinda close, I wasn't long-term focused, but it was lol-worthy.
But, that reminds me of my strategy in that one t3-CDF ladder round. I thought, my job this round will be to shut down CJ from making any scores. It was highly effective, IMO, freeing up MS and Kenny to think like it's 2v2 against BR and Jag, as I figured I can just do my best to take CJ out of the equation. Regardless of the ins and outs of this, outside of JJ2... I gave this same strategy to the San Antonio Spurs, when they faced the Miami Heat in the NBA finals. I said: just let Boris Diaw shut down Lebron James, and keep Lebron away from the ball. Ultimately, that strategy effectively helped the Spurs win the NBA finals in 2014, when they were almost going to lose. Letting Boris Diaw do the job of shutting down Lebron: meant guys like Tim Duncan could roam for shotblocks, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili could go for steals and strips, and Kawhi Leanord wouldn't think: he was expected to cover Lebron 1on1, when Lebron is in reality, much bigger physically, I estimate. Ok, kinda off-topic, but it kinda proves JJ2 can actually make a difference in the world, and be productive.
Ok, enough of this post, it's way too long now. Just wanted to tell some experiences.
Double post, but: as MS thought I could be considered, I'll point out my recollectment of what I've done with JJ2, over the years, but mostly in plus-era CTF.
I had JJ2 since before 1.23, but there wasn't any serious competitive scene at first, obviously. This isn't the whole story of JJ2 as told by Splat, anyway. I think my 1st real CTF training was in [kr3w] clan, around 2006. We helped with making plus at first too, but: that's truly not relevent, there's a difference between the important contributors like Violet CLM, but he didn't play any ladders or clanwars. The conceptual difference is obvious.
So, in kr3w, with RedNinja, Ninja, Starfox, and often Ajazz and Becky (?) we really essentially trained JE every evening after school for maybe 2 months. I was in high school so I quit in order to join tackle football team for after school activities, łøł. But that was when I learned basic CTF mechanics, just in 2006. After that, I eventually joined [si] and went back to playing mostly battle, and also focusing on non-JJ2 stuff during 2007-2009 (I was probably active on JCF, actually.) :p
In summer 2010 I started again with CTF, only in Zeal Alpha. I think I remember some active people from there, Treylina, Iustyn, Kesha, others. I thought Iustyn was the best player, łøł. But I didn't check Zeal Duels until 2011.
So then, I started watching teamgames in ZD, until I got to know some people, and I was really quiet because I had to figure out how to read the languages like Polish, Romanian, German, even English, because my catchphrase in 2009-2010 was: "I don't speak language" (I was trying to learn Sinhalese, plus I was arguing that: oh yeah, College Park Maryland is older than language itself. Off-topic though). Anyway, I got into t3 during 2011. I mean, I could already play CTF, had to adapt to new CTF codes, but in terms of joining 1.24 servers after playing only 1.23: I had to adapt to the languages, because you still can't play teamgames until you can communicate fluidly, somehow.
Regardless, joining t3 I soon was determined to make this team a contender to win a ladder season. IIRC, season 3 we gained ranks rapidly once I joined, but GPW was already on the cusp of winning with a clanwar over VS. Season 4 I was still dedicated, we had a full season of training. I think I brought the scheduled trainings idea to t3, which later when I joined CDF we incorporated that too. It was basically about arranging a schedule so that everyone in the clan, or almost everyone, could make it at that time. Not that complex, just difficult for high-schoolers who have to work with the pre-defined HS schedule. In college, my schedule was flexible, at that time.
Anyway, we nearly won season 4, but the season was interrupted by the radar thing, and then also CX and IB were formed. We eventually lost a season-ending clanwar to CX, who won.
Well, season 5, I thought: we have to get other members with the motivation to win the season. Obviously we had ability to win the season, but if I'm the only one who wants to, it would never happen. I figure that I think Zerg decided, it's a good idea to try and win the season. (Prior to that, my idea was: we have to beat every ladder clan in at least 1 match or clanwar, xd.) Then I figured: I have to just rely on my teammates, they're just as strong as me, anyway. Anyway, JJB was mostly inactive this season, until playoffs. And, I didn't play at all once playoffs started. So, anyway t3 managed to win the season (the 1st one with official playoffs, not just a season-deciding clanwar). And regardless that CX only had 2 players for the final match, also: debatably we could've won season 4, but we agreed not to play any ladders, because that way we can wait until the CW against CX, so it could almost be an official final match (despite that, we could've won if we had even submitted ladders, but, the retrospective analysis just shows it was better with playoffs, IMHO).
Well, season 6, or next season in late 2012: IIRC, we got to 200 ladder points faster and easier than ever before. Personally I turned 21 in 2012, and at that time I started developing more muscle strength: at that point I figured I have better stamina than the teenagers, who were still in high school, so playing a 20-minute ladder never be physically tiring, only boring/annoying/frustrating but not like... "my hands will be sore after this ladder" - by 2012 I figured, that won't be the case for me: but maybe for others, if they were too young (physically not as developed) or just inexperienced with the keyboard position (for ppl new to JJ2).
Well, anyway, I actually quit t3 about when playoffs started. But then, I rejoined, just for the 1st round CW, however I missed the pre-CW training, and resulting in a loss by a small margin to CX. Also, Plumbe replaced me in 2nd round, also Owen almost replaced him. Well, that's probably in the videos section, it was my 1st official CW that I played for ladder, I think. Anyway, then I got rid of my computer because it was overheating, so I decided it's just trash, not really worth using in the 1st place since it overheats.
I mostly took a break from JJ2, in 2013 I wound up with a larger notebook computer. I noticed I can still play JJ2 decently enough, but I only casually paid attention to ladder. I just tried to give it a rest, basically. When JDC started I played a lot, maybe summer 2013. I won't worry about JDC on this topic - that's primarily not CTF teamgames, and really a different context other than this post. I mean I play for fun, but I can't discuss everything in 1 post.
IIRC, at the end of that JDC season I joined CDF. Then I figured: I don't plan to worry about ladder much, I thought after training with both t3 and CDF for their TB clanwar (when I wasn't in any clan) I'll join CDF, and I liked the help from CDF in testing my test level. (Thinking CDF could be a clan and a levelgrou, but again off-topic.) We played ladders regardless, also Kenny had joined CDF not toi long before I did. And Kenny was part of the GPW team which won season 3.
TBH IDK what season that was when I joined CDF. I think Jenny, Foly, and Artegor joined CDF in 2013 around when I did. And Jaguar left CDF, joining t3 about that time. (I was inspired because I liked Jaguar's tag of [CDF']. Well, I put a big effort in a laddee against T3, after I was in t3 pwning CDF, could I beat t3 as part of CDF? Somehow yes, in 3v3 ladder. 1st round was MS, Kenny and Jenny vs BR, Jag and Kev (CDF won 3-1 in TCS) and 2nd round was MS, Kenny and I vs BR, Jag and CJ (tied 2-2 in super). Not as big a deal as I would make it out to be, but by the time I left CDF in 2014, CDF at least had an active ladder team, as opposed to trying just to make enough points for a veto in a season. Although CDF was then a solid clan, just not that active in ladder, as they are now.
Well, in 2014 I really don't remember ever focusing alot on ladder, but I thought I was playing good during spring of that year. Especially I was saying: in random games, I had perfect teamplay with Sue, just for example. And at that time, I figured TD was becoming very good, Ahmo also becoming one of the best players. Actually I practically almost joined CX (I left CDF for a while, and later rejoined) but eventually didn't. I was gonna join VS even before that but I have to be realistic, 1 thing at a time. I trained with both VS and CX, anyway. Also, I skipped over 2013 NT, where I trained with both EU and PL-B for the championship match. I thought PL-B had a better (more complete) training session, and they indeed did win; I thought also Sue was a real leader of that team.
Well, in late 2014 after rejoining CDF, I played in a CTF playoff CW against CC. We lost but it was kinda close, I wasn't long-term focused, but it was lol-worthy.
But, that reminds me of my strategy in that one t3-CDF ladder round. I thought, my job this round will be to shut down CJ from making any scores. It was highly effective, IMO, freeing up MS and Kenny to think like it's 2v2 against BR and Jag, as I figured I can just do my best to take CJ out of the equation. Regardless of the ins and outs of this, outside of JJ2... I gave this same strategy to the San Antonio Spurs, when they faced the Miami Heat in the NBA finals. I said: just let Boris Diaw shut down Lebron James, and keep Lebron away from the ball. Ultimately, that strategy effectively helped the Spurs win the NBA finals in 2014, when they were almost going to lose. Letting Boris Diaw do the job of shutting down Lebron: meant guys like Tim Duncan could roam for shotblocks, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili could go for steals and strips, and Kawhi Leanord wouldn't think: he was expected to cover Lebron 1on1, when Lebron is in reality, much bigger physically, I estimate. Ok, kinda off-topic, but it kinda proves JJ2 can actually make a difference in the world, and be productive.
Ok, enough of this post, it's way too long now. Just wanted to tell some experiences.
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. Then following by Faw, CJ, Kenny, Grytolle etc. I don't count known cheaters because I don't know for how long did they cheat. But this question is really hard to answer, indeed. I'd like to see some oldies respond.
