The JJNet crew have deemed A7med and Pavlus to be guilty of cheating during ladder season 17. There has been an increasing amount of video and chatlog evidence of both players using a radar or equivalent software to gain more vision on their opponents in game. The video evidence has been recorded in various types of matches, including duels, clanwars, trainings and NT matches. A group of detectives took their time to analyze the suspicious video material to find out all the suspicious moments.
The punishments are as follows:
-Pav - Banned for 2 years from competitive play -A7med - Banned for 2 years from competitive play -Gpw - All the points gained during season 17 are taken away
The evidence is split up into many parts and all of it is available for anyone to see, for transparency. There is a video compilation for each player, showing the most suspicious moments from all the evidence. Besides the compilation videos, there are also evidence documents; One for the most suspicious moments altogether and another one for low evidence moments. The low evidence document contains all the moments which were deemed as suspicious at first, but later evaluated to be of no real evidence, due to plausible explanations like voice-communication, etc. Finally, there are also all the full chatlogs that were partly used in the video compilations.
the formerly good players(veg) are frustrated that they arnt great anymore, the game is changed, people make new plus again and again. player learn the new plus and you are still playing the old. its possible that u never become as great as ye were no matter how hard u try.
Also BTW: (Just a sugestion since I'm not intending to play on JJ-net) … There is no good valid reason for people to be so vindictive toward other people, nor to themselves.
Honestly that sentence should stand alone, however given the context, I think that if there is a justifyable provocation such that you are making an accusation toward another person in this comunity:
I'd recomend being slightly more polite and humble, rather than being subtly condescending and inflamatory about your aproach to comunicating with the people you are upset with — especialy because: (for me, I can't aford to be disrespectful toward young people) and furthermore the use of insults just elongates the duration of the (perceived) conflict, whereas cooperation or cooperativity at least has the potential to allow a resolution for the benefit of the greater comunity, and particularly such that the people who care can conclude with their goals acomplished.
Anyway, this has just been my afterthought on the topic of debate, and I'm not aiming the coment at anyone in particular, nor do I expect anyone to care since personally, I'm at a point in life that I cannot afford to expend anymore time and effort on ladder, (with the exception of posting self-aggrandizing melodramatic coments on articles that regardless don't pertain to me whatsoever)
Simple, obvious, easy way to resolve this would be admins draw the line about "kids" servers and "adults" servers — for the sake of argument: intrinsically, the "internet police" are not going to "protect" an adult if the "conflict" is against a child. In this "thought-experiment" the policy is to create barriers that prevent kids and adults from "playing games" together; that is just the normative tradition.
So albeit the question of "protecting a server" is solely derived from a point after the server "host, owner, peacemaker, safety-ensurance-agent, etc." chose already if the aforementioned server is for kids or adults.
Fundamentally, younger players take precedence over access to "public" game platforms in general — that would be a social normative — a cultural tradition, and the reason would be a safety protocol: people with more experience in life are more likely to avoid dangerous encounters with unsafe events, such as an internet game server with malicious agents that ruin games, rather than attempt to conquer them whereas the less-experienced are usually not as risk-averse … (IMHO)
well veg as tech talk , don't blame someone for ddossing until u r able to protect your servers well , so if you wanna blame someone blame the one who should make good protection , cuz u gonna meet more haters in the future
@Veg Let's agree on one thing: Pavle isn't capable of making a botnet. Not to mention spreading it. If Pavle could anyhow do the DDoS, it would be by using some web service or something, which is probably hard to find if not impossible, idk. Considering this, Pavle wouldn't be the one controlling the botnets, and there is no direct relation between him and the botnets which imply that using VPN is pointless. Also, the 2 methods you mentioned wouldn't be easy to implement at all, and as you said, would I expect Kyro to use them?
It could still be tracked tho idd, if you contacted that web service for example and asked them to give you info on who used the service, but let's be real, would they even care?
So, my point: DDoSing with a web service is untrackable enough ( as this was the only way anyone with such amount of knowledge could do the DDoS attack ). There was no reason why I would suggest Pavle use VPN to DDoS lol, would make no difference. I suggested him to use it in order to defend himself from the DDoS-es he was getting at that moment.
Wrong provider, Vodafone Mobiel != thuis. I can literally see the RX rate which spikes during the time of an attack, and goes down after. It doesn't matter, one way or another they'll get caught anyway if they continue. Traffic is coming from the internet, traffic still reaches me, I'm still online, there's nothing wrong with the internet. It's literally a Denial of Service.
Actually, you don't necessarily need to have a high internet speed to take someone down. But it helps. I can get packets and IP's, though not with the normal ISP router I have here. I'd have to change it.
I have no evidence however even on the ISP router, the load went up and what surprised me most: the amount of packets I received was high, but the actual speed it took was maybe 25Mbps, so it literally just filled up the amount of packets my router could handle, it did not use much speed.
Botnets run on one principe: Servers/PC's with leaks in it. There are 2 ways to find out: Either see who's controlling the IP's or use the same leak to get access to a server & see where the botnet controllers are located. With VPN, in any case, it's more difficult because you're actually hiding your IP. If you use VPN for anything, you're quite safe because all would only lead to VPN-providers and not you actually. However, if there's enough hard evidence, you can be reported to the VPN-provider and perhaps they will do something (ban?) then.
"I told him to use a VPN in order to keep his real IP hidden. I even asked him if that person (we all know who that was tho) is still DDoSing him - which you can also see in the logs."
Who? Kyro? Do you think he actually has the knowledge (no offense kyro xd)?
"Using a VPN for DDoS-ing makes no sense since your network isn't the one attacking, but botnets. And botnets can be all around the world literally."
That's where you're wrong, if you control a botnet with your own IP-address it may take a long time, but it can be retraced to you.
We were talking about DDoS, not DoS. In order to DoS, you need to have very high internet speed which is not case in Serbia. However, if you experienced any DoS attack, it is trackable. Considering you are systems and network engineer, you are capable of providing an evidence by sniffing the packets and see where they came from. So, it's really unprofessional if you have knowledge to track something, but instead, you just decide to accuse people without proof. (Even with VPN, you would be able to track DoS attack you would just see fake IP. So if you experienced any DoS attack, show the proof, network and systems engineer)
About DDoS (botnets), would you mind explaining how exactly would it be traced? With VPN or without, it shouldn't make any difference since the actual attackers are botnets.
I'll just say my point now so that if your answer is clear enough, I won't have to comment again: Pavle was getting DDoS-ed that night which you can see from the logs. He kept rejoining and saying that somebody is getting him down. I told him to use a VPN in order to keep his real IP hidden. I even asked him if that person (we all know who that was tho) is still DDoSing him - which you can also see in the logs. Using a VPN for DDoS-ing makes no sense since your network isn't the one attacking, but botnets. And botnets can be all around the world literally.
as for rag,gustaf,king warren and whoever else was into this fake accusation plan GJ you did great job this time you put dirt on our names and almost got all of us banned but you know what you are dogs you can keep digging for plan C since plan A and B failed keep digging bois unless your paws got tired
a) luck - that did not happen? b) good communication/teamplay - this did happen and in the evidence it's obvious how it did happen c) lack of ammo - yeah,like how are you supposed to spam bullets without ammo? d) coincidence/chance. - This is true to some degree,despite i explained the reasons of why they did those certain actions,the only "coincidence" was everytime an enemy came towards them that was the only coincidence (because there are times when the enemy come towards you and times the enemy does not) otherwise they have full reasons for their movement and change of direections
"That ends somewhere, nobody has that gameplay style unless you know what's going on in the game."
implying you have been active long enough to study every gameplay style of every player that has been playing recently
are you telling me that no one can have luck moments,good communication,lack of ammo,coincindences and that every game is planned from the start,no encounters are randomised?
1) Why did you join the GpW server if you don't trust it? Was it because you can claim later how you got DDoS-ed(while you probably didn't) and accuse us? That's so evil... You might have as well joined any other server and give your IP to other players, considering you said you didn't care if your IP gets leaked since you are systems and network engineer.
I was careful, but I had no reasons to believe you were ddos-ing anyone at that point. Remember I was not included in any of this so I had no idea what the accusations were. I got ddos'd 3 times after it, though (or at least dos'd, I saw a lot of packets come in though I couldn't actually read the IP's of the packets cause of this ****ty router).
2) Are you saying we're DDoS-ing ourselves too? Every one of us was getting DDoS-ed at some point. However, nobody mentions that. (Especially when Pavle got DDoS-ed after he joined Camel Duels) When would that have happened? CD's cannot be used for ddos-ing, the same protection used to protect the CD's, is also used to block faulty packets from being send. And as I said, I'm quite literally unable to send an attack because I have no access anymore; police took the hosts down.
3) How would you explain DDoS-es of people who never joined the GpW Server? There are many cases, but you weren't online and you don't even know. You just came here to try to put your own dirt on someone else. Learn to control your anger and don't repeat the Coolman case cause as you can see, it caused the chaos.
Like who? So far I haven't heard of any such cases yet. We're well aware Elec and coolman were DDoS-ing (really a ddos, the actual meaning of the word) too.
@Veg I'd kindly ask you to be objective now and say what you think of what Wrn just said (Considering you know how DDoS works):
"Okay, aside from removing the other possibility of you just telling him to be careful lest the attack get traced back to him..."
What's the question? There are 3 options anyway: a botnet (ddos), a dos with software on your own computers, or a dos-like attack on computers & servers using VPN. In case of 1 and 3, it can most probably be traced back to you. VPN makes it much more difficult to trace back.
It all starts with a mistake from the attacker.
"veg this is the third time i'm saying this but apparently you won't listen
the videos were debunked"
Nah, you tried debunking them by calling it a) luck b) good communication/teamplay c) lack of ammo d) coincidence/chance. That ends somewhere, nobody has that gameplay style unless you know what's going on in the game.
"the videos were debunked" there are still a few moments in the pavlus section of our discussion document, which have not received a plausible explanation, yet. someone mind giving one? i am curious what we missed, while analysing it. i want to make clear that this is just for the record, it does not influence the final decision, anymore. do you still have the editable link?
"Only me telling Pavle how to defend himself from getting DDoS-ed"
Okay, aside from removing the other possibility of you just telling him to be careful lest the attack get traced back to him... Clearly witnessing pav attacking then saying elsewhere "pav can't do this you all are the blameworthy!" is just expressive of the shadiness behind this.
Oh, so assuming the correctness of what you said about pav being DDos'ed already ruined the point of you questioning Veg in a similar fashion.
There's nothing to justify there. Only me telling Pavle how to defend himself from getting DDoS-ed which started happening guess when. When he joined Camel Duels. Coincidence? Veg knows very well, considering he has experience with being a DDoS attacker, that what Pavle says on this screenshot about 2 machines, make no sense.
@Veg 1) Why did you join the GpW server if you don't trust it? Was it because you can claim later how you got DDoS-ed(while you probably didn't) and accuse us? That's so evil... You might have as well joined any other server and give your IP to other players, considering you said you didn't care if your IP gets leaked since you are systems and network engineer. 2) Are you saying we're DDoS-ing ourselves too? Every one of us was getting DDoS-ed at some point. However, nobody mentions that. (Especially when Pavle got DDoS-ed after he joined Camel Duels) 3) How would you explain DDoS-es of people who never joined the GpW Server? There are many cases, but you weren't online and you don't even know. You just came here to try to put your own dirt on someone else. Learn to control your anger and don't repeat the Coolman case cause as you can see, it caused the chaos.
Except when I was taken down a month ago, they did not have my IP. GpW? Yes. As I had joined your server. Coincidence?
Don't try to turn things around, your server nor some of your players can clearly be trusted. The videos speak for itself, as does the ddos-ing of players who joined no other servers except GpW and Pukes, nvm the case of Gustaf. But then again, you're clearly stating you even think we're making this all up & took our own routers out apparently.
"I understand now why Cx-ers started posting random pictures of weird stuff. You make no sense at all and are bending whatever I'm saying to what pleases you."
oh so you understand their feelings pretty well,the feeling when you do not have a counter-argument,so you decide to play "he is speaking non-sense" card and ignore all of my points
oh good lord,aren't you living in your own cute echo chamber?
It perhaps stopped that day because you were constantly attacking him. A while after that, your action caused even bigger chaos. I think we can both agree that he is not the kind of person who would just calm down after he gets DDoS-ed. And I bet you knew that, but you decided to do the DDoS attack anyway. I wonder why?
Now let me point the contradictions of your comment: Veg: "no, it was happening and kept happening anyway;" Also Veg: " Note that for a long time after that, it was quiet with ddos's ..."
Veg: "Irony, it did not involve me," also Veg: " *I* proved a point to Coolman which..." -->Yeah, it totally didn't involve you. The fact you were showing off with this in jj2 and discord servers is even more ridiculous. Not just a dog that barks around but also bites. (Just a metaphor, I'm not calling you a dog, don't worry.)
The conclusion: Pavle would never dare to do a crime. A dangerous person is actually the grown adult capable of taking down people and also abusing it in his personal matters. (I think we can agree it's you)
1) Are you justifying the crime with "I used the power only once"? no 2) Are you justifying the crime with "He ddos-ed me first"? no 3) What were you thinking when you decided to DDoS Coolman? That he will stop DDoSing you? Or you expected it to make him even madder and cause even bigger chaos, not only to you but to the whole community? - He was taking down players, I took him down and it magically stopped that day 4) Knowing it will make even bigger chaos, why did you eventually decide to do a DDoS attack? - it was as big a chaos already, at that time it didn't really matter 5) Do you think that you DDoSing Coolman is the reason why he kept DDoSing people later? - no, it was happening and kept happening anyway; I just told and showed him how annoying it was 6) Do you think you are the one who started the DDoS chaos? (A server owner showing an example on how to (not) deal with angriness.) no - and I wasn't a server owner
Now that we know how the DDoS attacks started, which obviously involves you (in fact you are the one who started the mentioned DDoS madness), could you stop talking about the things that have nothing to do with this post? Thank you in advance.
Irony, it did not involve me, I proved a point to coolman which you're taking totally out of context now. I even told coolman a day/same day/few days? later.
Note that for a long time after that, it was quiet with ddos's again until idk, some time last year?
Thank you for your inputs on this topic. However, I can't not ask a few questions, which you can answer or just consider them rhetorical. 1) Are you justifying the crime with "I used the power only once"? 2) Are you justifying the crime with "He ddos-ed me first"? 3) What were you thinking when you decided to DDoS Coolman? That he will stop DDoSing you? Or you expected it to make him even madder and cause even bigger chaos, not only to you but to the whole community? 4) Knowing it will make even bigger chaos, why did you eventually decide to do a DDoS attack? 5) Do you think that you DDoSing Coolman is the reason why he kept DDoSing people later? 6) Do you think you are the one who started the DDoS chaos? (A server owner showing an example on how to (not) deal with angriness.)
Now that we know how the DDoS attacks started, which obviously involves you (in fact you are the one who started the mentioned DDoS madness), could you stop talking about the things that have nothing to do with this post? Thank you in advance.
I understand now why Cx-ers started posting random pictures of weird stuff. You make no sense at all and are bending whatever I'm saying to what pleases you.
Edit: don't think you have the last word, I'm just tired of trying to argue
"Going all over the place with random accusations"
but what are you doing right now? aren't you the one who mentioned pavlus DDos while this topic was about radar accusations?
" instead of caring over your own cheaters, who are clearly cheating, it being well documented and recorded too."
veg,just because you can ignore what people say that does not mean they haven't said anything about this regard
like i said,i've taken care of my..."cheaters" in the so-called "well documented and recorded" evidence document that kev send It really shows that you are entirely out of track with this topic and you judge with insufficient documentation,but you don't need documentation as that does not prove your clan right
"Never mind Gustaf getting ddos'd with only Pav having his IP unless you're suggesting Gustaf ddos'd himself?"
random accustion,but whatever,it's funny that you cannot even consider that he could have just unplugged the router/wifi adapter to produce the similar effect,also you can just use your cursor to hold your jj2 window and cause a cto,it's really that simple also,what removes the possibility of gustaf just having a bad connection? Did gustaf actually tracked his own connection to see if he is getting spammed with packets?
"You might! Pav clearly confessed the ddos-abilities too emo"
'confessed',his own relative was laughing at him in the same chatlogs it was posted,he knew that pavlus was not even able to ddos somebody,even shaker himself stated that no ddos attack was received when he said those things
"Irony has it I used that power once, on coolman, after he kept crashing servers, that's it."
hahahahaha, 'Let me remind you ddos is a criminal offense.' remember those words veg? you could have also reported him to the police but instead you decided to ddos him back and even admitting you did it,not really a wise choice here...
unlike pavle,we actually have proofs of you ddosing people,both in words and action done at the same time
meanwhile pavlus just barks but not bites
"Again you're trying to take something out of context, and to change subject while it is you guys who are clearly the d*cks here. "
Right,as if you are not a d*ck yourself,pointing at chatlogs that were taken out of context,changing the subjects constantly by saying
'I'd ban Pav even for possibly trying to ddos players, it became pretty obvious by now he has access.'
which btw,i was told the ddos situation was aleardy disproven among the jjnet staff chat,but apparently you to try avoid talking about that part so it makes us look bad... and then you complain about people making you look bad,calling them d*cks instead of saying "well ok,it makes sense,i've also tried to make them look bad,they are still d*cks tho",but your hypocritical nature does not allow you to do that
"Instead, you try everything in your power to discredit others, to make others look like d*cks. No, won't work, you failed. emo"
And it isn't about making people look bad,it's about people who barely even have a clue about the progress of this situation and even act disgusted at the things they have been also guilty of You are here suggesting that we should all put blame on GpW and pardon the sh*t your clan has done,making you guys look like angels,yeah **** equality
You barely even have a place in this conversation apart from talking about things that were aleardy disproven
This now looks like The Walking Dead season 6 and 7. Nothing new, they just repeat what happened in the previous seasons. Cmon, bring in something new, something funny
Veg , I am just answering your senseless post in which you started accusing GpW and kept adding fuel to the fire after everyone stopped commenting. Accusing us of ddos is very stupid, especially when you have stated before you can see who is dosing CD's now. Everyone can dos in JJ2 yet you still somehow decide to attack US? you said "you're just throwing out random accusations." but look what you are saying now you accusing a guy with egyptian internet that cant pass 5mbps. of ddosing your jjnet associated servers and your home internet how dumb can you be? It shows a massive bias if anything lmao... How about you stop accusing us of radar or just atleast try to be civil/not biased? Currently you're not either of those things. Also , funny that you mention we try to make other look like ****s when you are the one trying to make us look like ****s. This entire post made GpW look completely horrible just because the admins rushed this post without checking evidence.
Irony has it I used that power once, on coolman, after he kept crashing servers, that's it. Since then I long lost the ability to do so, unlike you The CD's alone were already targetted 3 times, my home was targetted several times too. Couldn't take CD's down though could you?
Again you're trying to take something out of context, and to change subject while it is you guys who are clearly the d*cks here. Instead, you try everything in your power to discredit others, to make others look like d*cks. No, won't work, you failed.
"I'd ban Pav even for possibly trying to ddos players, it became pretty obvious by now he has access. "
Veg it's actually so funny you the one who said that while you the one showing off all the time that you capable of ddosing people.
[09:26:15] *** Boomkub001 was BANNED [09:26:19] wrncx: lel [09:26:22] Miky[CDF]Roby: happy easter [09:26:26] blacky[si]: i thought you already banned that guy [09:26:43] VegitoCC: he changes IP [09:26:49] VegitoCC: I can DDOS him [09:26:52] PJ CC: that's his normal IP [09:26:52] PJ CC: lol [09:26:53] VegitoCC: it's more effective [09:26:56] VegitoCC: oh
"Uhm,you still did play somewhere between 2015-2016 i'm sure of it,at the time when CC was still the top clan and that was around the time anti-radar was also introduced"
History lesson! In 2015-2016 I mostly only played tests, it was the year Choco played. The last clanwar I played I trained for was in 2011 versus GpW. 2011 is the last year I was really active, in fact, after 2011 CC played no clanwars for 3 years because it became RDS instead, partly due to my own inactivity. CC only won one more ladder season since I became more or less inactive, the season where -t3 magically beat Cx in the semi's (DW!). And the clanwar vs -t3 was with me playing very ****ty, bad stats but quite fun anyway. You will find no exceptionally skilled Vegito anywhere after 2011, I slowly lost my skills since 2011. Thank you for trying to know CC's and my own history better than myself, though!
And actually, I was one of the most pro anti-radar players since it came out and would often ask for it to be turned on during CC clanwars. Considering I have such a low ping, anti-radar lagged me one of the least so I had no issues with anti-radar. Now it seems it could be bypassed anyway but yeah.
"you haven't,your opinions are based off wrong facts and lies"
You're actually disagreeing I've given a strong opinion? wtf. A strong opinion != strong argument. I've given a controversial opinion, one that would lead to more discussions and you're telling me I didn't. You're the living proof I did
Edit: Ah right, but now what's happening? Right, exactly what I said! Going all over the place with random accusations, instead of caring over your own cheaters, who are clearly cheating, it being well documented and recorded too. Never mind Gustaf getting ddos'd with only Pav having his IP unless you're suggesting Gustaf ddos'd himself? You might! Pav clearly confessed the ddos-abilities too
Reading through all of this makes me realize that, if it would be possible to play competitively again, important matches should be played in a neutral server, not in any server ASOCIATED with any party involved. Shaker's servers would offer the perfect platform for that, just like they have during most of the NT.
"No, I stopped many years before it was introduced, unless you claim it was introduced 10 years ago when plus I think hardly existed or did not exist?"
Uhm,you still did play somewhere between 2015-2016 i'm sure of it,at the time when CC was still the top clan and that was around the time anti-radar was also introduced
" Thank you for trying to make me look bad though, you're obviously a ****."
Oh but when you do that yourself you are a saint in that regard? sorry for being a **** to people who are equally ****s
"IMO the evidence clearly shows some very funny business is going on. Denying it is just making you look funny."
The only funny business was the evidence itself,that had to be reevaluated,it's not only us who denied it,it was also one of the jjnet staff that did it
" Denying it is just making you look funny."
oh sorry for staying objective,we should ban players because that clearly does not fit your clan's argument
"Walking around in a duel not shooting"
all cases of that was due to the lack of ammo or sometimes they even did shoot while the evidence said otherwise
"clearly showing all the time you know where the opponent is? Come on. You all *seriously* don't know the damage you're doing by even protecting players like these."
yes veg,we should all do as you say and do not defend our members cause it clearly ****s on your plans to make things fair and you do not want fairness
"I've given pretty strong opinions, no doubt,"
you haven't,your opinions are based off wrong facts and lies
"but that's only and only because you as a clan are pretty much ridiculing jj2 and jjnet at this point."
Sure do not admit that this ban is literally what demoralized both parties from playing and trusting eachother i believe i said it before and i will say it once again the radar won't be the main cause of this scene dying,it will be the toxicity of it
"Should lock this thread anyway."
maybe
"You've given ****loads of 'evidence' on a plate and straight up deny it"
yes veg,we should embrace every bull**** evidence that people try to shove down our throats without even questioning it and call it a day just because of their number,which makes sense why they are huge,they are only able to gather 1 or 3 evidences per round (some of the round even miss evidences) gathered from alot of clanwars they have recorded what they have in those evidences are non-frequent activity of their moments but well we cannot prove CC wrong cause everything they say is always right,everyone who opposes them are wrong unlike you we don't just "deny" them,we actually give explanation of why they are denied you just come here and claim that those evidences are legit without even knowing what you are talking about
"yeah, you stopped caring about jj2 competitively when anti-radar was introduced"
No, I stopped many years before it was introduced, unless you claim it was introduced 10 years ago when plus I think hardly existed or did not exist? Thank you for trying to make me look bad though, you're obviously a ****.
"You've been inactive for so much time as you said yourself, therefore, you have no idea what the jj2 community wants so I'd kindly ask you to stop generalizing your bias emo it's a good thing you fall into the bias of pointing out GpW's flaws when your clan has done worse things .. but let's leave it like that."
No, I don't generalize: IMO the evidence clearly shows some very funny business is going on. Denying it is just making you look funny. That counts for all defending these players, especially those who I thought were reasonable: Sorry and not sorry for this opinion, Shadow, Urbs, Jelly and Naps.
Walking around in a duel not shooting, clearly showing all the time you know where the opponent is? Come on. You all *seriously* don't know the damage you're doing by even protecting players like these.
I've given pretty strong opinions, no doubt, but that's only and only because you as a clan are pretty much ridiculing jj2 and jjnet at this point. Should lock this thread anyway. You've given ****loads of 'evidence' on a plate and straight up deny it, in fact, a guide how NOT to get caught cheating is right there for all cheaters to see now.
Let me start this off by addressing a message to Veg :
You've been inactive for so much time as you said yourself, therefore, you have no idea what the jj2 community wants so I'd kindly ask you to stop generalizing your bias it's a good thing you fall into the bias of pointing out GpW's flaws when your clan has done worse things .. but let's leave it like that.
On the most important note,
There's a reason why both Rag and Shadow have come forth saying that everyone should just wait for the decisions of the admins instead of going on and on about their own personal bias so on that note I'd like to ask everyone to just stop commenting and wait for the official decision. This is quite practically going in circles and it won't ever reach a conclusion
"Police would never care for individual problems, until a company is involved. "
I doubt jjnet should even care about individual problems aswell
"You even think anyone wants to play vs GpW any longer? You're mistaken. No clan will face any of your players anymore, you're basically banned by the community."
veg please,the community is not only just cx and cc,don't speak in the name of this community as obviously you have no idea what you are talking about we still do have players that we can still trust playing against,such as the majority of CDF
"No, because I still cared for jj2 competitively then."
yeah, you stopped caring about jj2 competitively when anti-radar was introduced
"Don't you see what you're doing, though? Instead of accepting your clans reputation went to trash and trying to make it better," We won't bother into making it better and asslicking people because honestly,why would we even try to look better into the eyes of people who cry about getting beaten in a game by a 14 year old? You are aleardy making yourself look worse with these kinds of comments aswell
why should i find it acceptable that people can just throw trash at active players,calling them cheaters and banning them for it? just because they were too inactive to even train in the said game and got their asses kicked for it
"you're just throwing out random accusations."
you aren't doing anything different than this,except that,what we said was actually confirmed while you just pointed out something that never happened
"The more you do so, the worse it gets for you. Only due to your own actions. "
The more we express ourselves and do not hide like cowards,the more worse it gets for us? yeah sure,we should stay quiet while cc and cx are laughing their asses off while they are looking at the mess they have done,good grief
"go ahead,none of our members really care about being banned there,in fact we even encourage that,ban the entirety of GpW from that server,that way we won't have to be forced have to be forced by CC refs to play there anymore"
You even think anyone wants to play vs GpW any longer? You're mistaken. No clan will face any of your players anymore, you're basically banned by the community.
"so it's your server,but you let that irc bot that reports healths slide...without using it,sure,i'll buy that"
Yes, because 1.5 year ago when CD's closed it was not my server. Many JJ2ers paid for it for those years. This time however I bought the server myself, and host CD's on it for Kyro. And no, I barely used IRC then.
Don't you see what you're doing, though? Instead of accepting your clans reputation went to trash and trying to make it better, you're just throwing out random accusations. You're doing exactly as I pointed out initially. The more you do so, the worse it gets for you. Only due to your own actions.
"One thing did catch my eye, you defending pav's ddos. Let me remind you ddos is a criminal offense. Almost anywhere you go, just threatening to ddos can get you banned."
It is a criminal offense indeed, so report him to the police? in case you had sufficient proofs that can actually send him in jail
"For that matter, I'll ban him from Camel Duels actually. It's my server"
go ahead,none of our members really care about being banned there,in fact we even encourage that,ban the entirety of GpW from that server,that way we won't have to be forced have to be forced by CC refs to play there anymore
"and it has been attacked several times by your own damn clanmate."
and where are the proofs that it was indeed him and not coolman or any of the turkish people,you can only throw false accusations at us but not prove it
"Let me remind you, last time I was really playing was 10 years ago. Long before you were born"
Let me remind you that i was 10 before 10 years ago so that's not long before i was born,in fact long after i was born and how is that even relevant?
"When was anti-radar introduced? You're actually suggesting I quit because of anti-radar? No, I was pushed over the border of really quitting 4 years ago because *insert history of what happened now, except 4 years ago with Lazar making a radar version*"
ah right,but that didn't happen when slayer was caught with radar, right? you were not pushed over the border at that time, right?
"aren't you also one of the guys who abused the irc bot to see people's healths? " so it's your server,but you let that irc bot that reports healths slide...without using it,sure,i'll buy that
@Veg I would be very grateful if you tried to avoid my name in your posts, thanks.
Now that you made me log in here again, let me inform you that, as someone who showed the capability of doing DDoS attacks and showing off in jj2 discord groups with such activity, while we all know it is a criminal offense, you are banned from GpW Server, cause it seems like our server was your target as well.
tl;dr version? Keep it short, naps. One thing did catch my eye, you defending pav's ddos. Let me remind you ddos is a criminal offense. Almost anywhere you go, just threatening to ddos can get you banned. For that matter, I'll ban him from Camel Duels actually. It's my server, and it has been attacked several times by your own damn clanmate.
Don't care about the rest, you're just doing exactly what I expected.
who are you talk about being untrustworthy tho? aren't you the one who abused camel's playlogs or ircbot to view what maps SRB has trained on and what they would possibly pick vs NL,which was your team at that time? - yes aren't you also one of the guys who abused the irc bot to see people's healths? - no aren't you one of the guys who made the LB clan? - yes, let me remind you that was 15 years ago
give me a break,when anti-radar was introduced 2 people became inactive in the CTF community hyp and you
When was anti-radar introduced? You're actually suggesting I quit because of anti-radar? No, I was pushed over the border of really quitting 4 years ago because *insert history of what happened now, except 4 years ago with Lazar making a radar version* Let me remind you, last time I was really playing was 10 years ago. Long before you were born, apparently. And WAY before anti anti radar came out. You don't know what you're talking about, all you do is exactly what I said.
"GpW, and those heavily protecting GpW which includes you Jelly, you're either blind or just lame. You're just giving clearly unfair players a stage to present themselves on. "
What is lame is that you can accuse everyone of cheating even if they don't have radar in their computer or anything similar
Sure give no right for everyone to defend themselves because you see them as cheaters with insufficient proofs So far this is the only case in the history of jjnet that people got banned without even admitting or having a keylogger in their computer
"It became pretty damn obvious A7med, Pav and perhaps L have something to hide. Where for example Krzy is recording his screens to show he's hiding nothing, those protecting GpW are only trying to cause chaos."
I think what's obvious is your bias the rushed ban really points towards not showing any care of spotting cheaters but eliminating competition on jjnet,longer this is proven by the fact that the site automatically gave the win to cx instead of concluding the season as null or any reset,as no one would know how the ladders would go if GpW was not playing at all
basically this should be considered as a form of cheating itself but well,how does one even dare to talk about beloved admins and their decisions despite not being any better
"You even use the plus team in your advantage."
btw it's not our fault that plus team saw through this bs and gave unbiased explanation for everything
"I'd ban Pav even for possibly trying to ddos players, it became pretty obvious by now he has access. "
I'm glad you are not admin anymore tbh,i'd not feel comfortable if someone would ban anyone for something that happends outside jjnet but also having not enough proofs attached to the ban,just pressing the ban button like a kid and call it a day also you in the other hand,have been proving it by ddosing coolman yourself,i agree that he also dosed,but it does not eliminate the possibility that you can also do it,so honestly,by any means,if we are going to ban everyone because they are able to ddos,i'd rather go for a CC ban as their member is clearly capable of doing it so
"We know L is smart enough to create his own cheats."
oh good lord,it's funny that you are saying this,just to let you know that one of the leaders in your clan is capable of also doing his own cheats such as bigjazz and coolhax4u (which if i recall,he wasn't happy about it being distributed publicly) also he coded one of the radar mutators
"you're totally untrustworthy"
who are you talk about being untrustworthy tho? aren't you the one who abused camel's playlogs or ircbot to view what maps SRB has trained on and what they would possibly pick vs NL,which was your team at that time? aren't you also one of the guys who abused the irc bot to see people's healths? aren't you one of the guys who made the LB clan?
"hatever you said trying to defend yourself, or telling others are to blame too because of possibly having cheats, it's just causing chaos."
oh bohoo,as it wasn't aleardy chaos when admins decided to ban before thinking what would happen to jjnet what? did you thought that people would take bias pretty well? that you can just appear out of sudden from inactivity and ban people that actually play the game more than you do these days,judge them with insufficient proofs (that i doubt you even checked them yourselfs as they had to be corrected after the ban was posted),cast them away and expecting rainbows and sunshines from people that were not involved into this bs? if that's so then wake up or otherwise you will complain more about chaos and blame people for your own mistakes further for it
"Making others less trustworthy in the end doesn't help you at all, you're still as untrustworthy as before."
We aleardy defended ourselves long enough,but you were apparently absent from that phase and yes,why shouldn't we talk about the bs they are also doing,if they are going to pretend further that they are all angels of justice,trying to be more credible to everyone who is reading these,but i'm glad you mentioned possibly thinking that we would call you on your bs aswell,but unluckily,you failed into stopping us doing that also i find it funny that we are blamed by untrustworthy players that have done worse in their jj2 career,it goes to show how much we share this community with hypocrites
"All this drama, all those untrustworthy players, it's exactly why I don't really play CTF anymore. It's too tiring to care. I'll go back to playing tests now"
oh such an angel are you,you were tired of all corruption and bs that has been happening in jj2 so it just hurt your soul and became a test player exactly when anti-radar was being introduced give me a break,when anti-radar was introduced 2 people became inactive in the CTF community hyp and you unlike you,Hyp actually admitted he was cheating so what eliminates the possibilty of also you,trying to run away from anti-radar after being a complicit to alot of bs cheating incidents
GpW, and those heavily protecting GpW which includes you Jelly, you're either blind or just lame. You're just giving clearly unfair players a stage to present themselves on.
It became pretty damn obvious A7med, Pav and perhaps L have something to hide. Where for example Krzy is recording his screens to show he's hiding nothing, those protecting GpW are only trying to cause chaos. You even use the plus team in your advantage.
I'd ban Pav even for possibly trying to ddos players, it became pretty obvious by now he has access. The games you played are *so* suspicious with use of ammo, you're totally untrustworthy. We know L is smart enough to create his own cheats.
Whatever you said trying to defend yourself, or telling others are to blame too because of possibly having cheats, it's just causing chaos. It's not helping you defend yourself, it's making others look less trustworthy too. Making others less trustworthy in the end doesn't help you at all, you're still as untrustworthy as before.
All this drama, all those untrustworthy players, it's exactly why I don't really play CTF anymore. It's too tiring to care. I'll go back to playing tests now
Please also note that it helps to communicate clearly when providing the JJ2+ team with bug reports https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/394857228294946817/722009442648064060/image0.png
In the mindset of recording music I tend to differentiate between "analog / mono" or "digital / stereo" and furthermore to whomever might still be so upset I sugest you search online for images of dandilions, if you seek remediation.
BTW, I don't mean to be condescending, just picture everything typed in Comic Sans font instead and the tone implied by the text shan't seem as volatile, albeit maybe less fancifully eloquent
"Anyway the reason I thought to remark upon this metaphor is because, personally I play alot of basketball having practiced for over 2 decades (about the same amount of time since I started playing JJ1)."
As we all know, a methapor is a subtle comparison between two elements that appear completely different, but they have some small common elements, based on which you build it. What I am trying to say is that if I want to create an analogy between ahtletics and jj2, it is not necessary for these two to have all elements similar.
I’d like to thank you for saving some of your time to write that comment which, in essence, I guess contains an ironical subtility, regarding those evalation criterias you made about the actual situation of solving the case, „Does the comment implicitly pertain to the topic of cheating in ladre by abusing radar? Does the comment explicitly substantiate radar abuse during ladre for the sake of cheating?” There are two things I wanted to emphatise: cheaters are everywhere, we must adapt and catch them with all resources. This does not mean giving up on the game(my case when I was beaten at the National Championships in 2013), the second one, to leave the hatred behind and continue in friendly atmosphere and support eachother to make the community beautiful.
“In a race for example you can start from a point where the distanceto the endpoint is technically less than that of your competitors. You can go into motion before you are suposed to. The laws of physics and the nature of time apply along with the often-vague rules of the comtest itself. You can even contend that the playing field in the case of the example of a spring or race is not level and therefore imbalanced to the point where one contestant could have a subtle advantage due to the gravitational plane at their location.”
In any situation which requires competitive behavior, there will be aspects that can make small differences, or maybe, why not, substansial diffreneces.( in sprint, for exemple, the only major factor that influences the performance besides the athlete’s skills is the wind.
“However, in sports or athletics, there is a more extreme variable that is considered unfair, that isn't so much a factor in videogames such as JJ2”
This is exactly what is happening in our game, since it is an “old game” and the players are located completely different and random geographical positions,the quality of the internet connexion is strongly variable. Everyone know how often ppl “shout” air and lag in the middle of a match. And this is the main factor which sometimes does’t make the game completely fair.
“JJ2 is in contrast a mind game where we players are sitting around and pressing buttons. There is alot of muscle memory instilled by the repetition of button-pressing with our hands, the amount of endurance required by the wrists to maintain keyboard control for a lengthy duration of time, and the dexterity of our fingers to quickly and gracefully enact the playing of the game via our characters.”
Talking about endurance and dexterity, athletics and generally all sports, require very constant training,and muscle memory improves by specific and repetitive exercises to facilitate the movement to make it seem natural. There’s a reason why videogames are slowly starting to be seen as a real sports in which the mind must be sustained by physical effort in order to keep it healthy and strong enough to face the stress during the game.
To be honest, I really didn’t understand the unility and purpose of your comment since I had the best intentions, trying to offer some advise on how should look at this event. This is exactly what I was talking about we should be a family and be kind to eachother not attack with no reason.
I would like to state my opinion in terms of a counterpoint to Kryt's comparison between sprinting and JJ2 -- that cheating in sports or athletics on average is not plausible to the same degree or extent as cheating in a videogame.
In a race for example you can start from a point where the distanceto the endpoint is technically less than that of your competitors. You can go into motion before you are suposed to. The laws of physics and the nature of time apply along with the often-vague rules of the comtest itself. You can even contend that the playing field in the case of the example of a spring or race is not level and therefore imbalanced to the point where one contestant could have a subtle advantage due to the gravitational plane at their location.
Although those scenarios seem unlikely, they could potentially be greatly exadurated, in the event that the race were setup to intentionally exemplify those features: (e.g., a bicycle race where one contestant starts from high-altitude and descends to a lower-altitude, whereas their opponent starts from low-altitude and ascends to a higher-altitude.) The discrepancy would obviously make it unfair in contrast to a race where the contestants were on the same level plane.
However, in sports or athletics, there is a more extreme variable that is considered unfair, that isn't so much a factor in videogames such as JJ2: and that is the capabilitys of our bodys. For example, everyone takes a unique bodily form, and sports are designed to inspire people to develop their bodys so that they become conditioned to excel at their sport of choice. Skills in sports are essentially the capability to overcome the differences between your own bodily attributes and those of your opponents.
JJ2 is in contrast a mind game where we players are sitting around and pressing buttons. There is alot of muscle memory instilled by the repetition of button-pressing with our hands, the amount of endurance required by the wrists to maintain keyboard control for a lengthy duration of time, and the dexterity of our fingers to quickly and gracefully enact the playing of the game via our characters.
Anyway the reason I thought to remark upon this metaphor is because, personally I play alot of basketball having practiced for over 2 decades (about the same amount of time since I started playing JJ1).
And my point of contention here is that I have played and watched and studied alot of basketball, and I have never heard of cheating in basketball so to speak, there are not drugs that might reliably enhance your performance in basketball.
(If anything, sobriety is considered to enchance your performance.)
There may be issues with imbalanced playing fields if the arena surface is not level, or the goals are not well-aligned; in particular the brightness of lights from nearby stars can be a significant problem (I think that I have gotten radiation poisoning from playing under excessive starshine).
However what does happen frequently in basketball is that, when there is a debate amongst players and spectators over varying perceptions of an investigation into an accusation of rule-breaking, frequently the argument continues for such along time that continuing the game itself becomes exponentially more unlikely.
(During a basketball game, the ball goes out-of-bounds, and players debate what team should regain posession of the ball next. If we were to graph the probability of the game continuing over time, where "Y = the probability of the game continuing," and "X = the amount of time the ball is possessed by grass," we could say that as "X approaches infinity" the function has a limit of 0, and that the asymptote would be a horizontal line where "Y=0."
... Illustration B: "What Team Should Regain Possession Of The Ball After It Goes Out-Of-Bounds" - https://i.postimg.cc/MZDM7HsM/regain-possession.gif ...
Conclusively, the temporal continuation of this senseless argument is reducing the overall probability that anymore actual games will ever be played to an infinitesmal percentage of an amount rapidly approaching 0 over time.
If you have information about cheating that could help the JJ2+ team, please share it with Violet; Violet CLM#8649 on Discord, [email protected], or you can send a PM on Jazz2Online.
oh, many apologies for some definite communication issues (im confused about wording: promise), what is the best preferred way to reach out to you so it doesnt cause any possible harm? best intensions, sincerely
Would also like to note that despite having been promised otherwise, the JJ2+ team still has not received a report on how to bypass the maximum resolution settings.
Hello, my name is Costin, people know me in the game as <<Krytical>>. This is probably a small clue for what I am going to write in the following lines, about my “critical” opinion on the recent events that took place in the JJ2 online community. I left the competitive stage of JJ2 in 2013, because I started having a very busy schedule. In 2016, I played a few matches, especially when the JJ2 team added an update that, to me, substantially changed the game mechanics for the better. This was not convincing enough to make me come back in the competitive scene, because of lack of motivation and insufficient time for gaming. A very important thing that I strongly felt all these years is how a game with such a small community managed to offer me so many friends and so many beautiful memories. On this occasion, I’d like to mention some of them: Kenny, who has been a game partner and a player with extraordinary qualities, whom I’ve also met in real life a few times, and we had a great time; Andreea(Harley), who is a 10/10 and very smart girl, and also a good friend; Urbs, who has always been so patient with me and Kenny when we were fooling around and talking nonsense, and he always came and defended us; Lahm, who is probably mad at me, and he has the right to do that, because I was a little bit of a jerk in the past, and, on this occasion, I’d like to apologise. And many other cool guys that I admired especially for their way of thinking and for the friendship that they offered me, and because they had a lot of patience in the few occasions when my childish side has made its presence felt. Now, after 7 years, in which being an athlete offered me the privilege to know so many different people and to live so many life experiences, to understand that things are not as easy as they seemed back then when I was just a child who only wanted to play and win, I realize how much I’ve changed and how much I’ve grown up. This process of growing up comes with many responsabilities, as we all know, and sometimes we feel the need to run away from them, to escape and become children again, by returning for a little while to the things that marked our childhood: for example, JJ2.
JJ2 does not have modern graphics, nor it is at least 3d, it is not a game which you join, wait in the que and then play with some players you’ll probably never meet again in other games. JJ2 is more than that, it is a family, a family that you must not throw away, you have to respect it, and even if someone is wrong, your duty is to teach them the right way. Regarding the previous events that took place in our community, I would like to adopt an objective position about this matter and not to take parts, not to defend any side of those concerned. I’d like to make an analogy between gaming and sports(my main field of interest). I do not want my intervention to look like I am defending anyone, especially since the technical part has always exceeded my understanding, and I do not to analyze the situation of the two players involved, but I would like to present a psychological approach of this <<drama>>, and offer some practical solutions, starting from where it all began. I think that I am one of the most entitled people around here to talk about cheating; not in the gaming field, but in the sports one, where I perform. Maybe very few of you know that I am a professional sprinter. I have often found myself in situations where I was the most likely competitor to win the 100m sprint event, just how it happened in the 2013 National Championship. To my surprise, that year, on stage showed up, <<out of nowhere>>, a competitior that I’ve defeated many times before, but that time he unexpectedly defeated me. You are going to ask what happened afterwards to that person. Well, he never competed at that level, he could barely reach the top 10 in the following contests, eventually giving up athletics. Did he cheat in that contest in 2013(I am talking about doping)? I do not know. I can only assume that he did. He might have stolen a medal from me, but what came afterwards was worth to me much more, because in the following years my place was always on the podium. It is said that in high level sports, everyone is doping, everyone is looking for ways to create and advangtage for themselves. Names such as Lance Armstrong, Ben Johnson, Maradona, and many other great sportsmen.
Why do people cheat in sports?
“The psychology of cheating in sports is a complicated topic, and researchers are learning more about what drives people to violate the rules, use performance-enhancing drugs, or take part in some other method of cheating. However, the fundamental reason why people cheat in sports isn’t complex at all. Athletes want to win. At the highest levels of sports, the difference between first and second place is often millions of dollars and a significant amount of fame. As a result, some athletes may believe winning really is the only thing. To them, the risk of getting caught and being labeled a cheater is worth the money and glory that being the best brings.”
The years’ve been around, the cheat situations were basically quite few from what I know ( Slayer and Hakum). There was not necessary to take any drastical measures in order to create an efficent anti-cheat system considering the seldom occasions of playing dirty. Coming to my sports analogy, in this field it was necessary the intervention of WADA to “catch” the Russians which compromised the Winter Olympic Games in 2014 and to reveale the doping system . The result of these events: a better mobilization from WADA, and well done job from the anti-doping campaigns. That being said my point is that our jj2 programators could take this case as an exemple and be our game's WADA . The purpose of the analogy I made is to explain that a situation like ours should have good effect on the future like it happened in sport where, after discovering cases of cheating, the authorities improved their methods significantlly, for a better environment for all the players.
For the end, my advise is that we should reach a higher level of empathy and understanding and to leave the hatred behind because you are great people and I love you guys!
That's just too much to read and guess what I sadly did , I recommend quick and fair desicions since some people are just too stupid even to make sense of their existense .
this message was send by Jelly,however he couldn't log into his account or use a new one,so he asked to have his message posted by someone else this will be explained in the post below:
"After being absent for about a month now, and seeing that this comment section blew up, I feel like now would be the right moment to adress what made me finally quit this game, in form of a relatively brief summary, as there are several factors that were involved and I would be stuck here all night writing and trying to give context for every single one of them. Some of them are more personal matters that have nothing to do with the game anyway. This is more about what the final nail in the coffin was. I'm doing this just to avoid some of you making your own versions of my own decisions and then selling them as facts to all the other players, so in the future you don't try to use it as a tool to hurt my friends who stood up for their clan while I so easily ran away leaving them behind.
I'm not here to talk about any evidence being false or insufficient, or question why others did not get the same treatment, as I see people are already fed up talking about that. This whole situation is full of flaws and the ones who initiated it should've thought about the consequences and the way the playerbase would react.
First of all, I'd like to say that most of my time playing JJ2 since the start of 2020 was pretty cool and I felt like I was bonding well with everybody, the CW Discord server was at its height and there would always be people you could have a laugh with and just genuinely have a good time with. It felt like people were truly above all these nonsense generalizations based on what clan you're in. The community was just fun to be in.
I'm very well aware, as are the rest of my teammates, that we are not the most respected clan in this game. Sure, we can come off as arrogant, cocky, irresponsible, salty and toxic. We are not saints but at least we don't pretend to be. And to me it seems like all of the people who were part of this conspiracy have been doing exactly that, pretending to be nice to us for their own personal benefit. Acting like you're all these cool nice guys while secretly doing your very best to screw as all over in the most humiliating way possible, while so many of us thought of you as friends and developed a kind of respect for many of you. You were able to make us feel guilty that some of our teammates had the audacity to call someone a cheater, while you're such massive hypocrites that put in the effort to gather up a whole team just to try to prove that some of our teammates you hate are cheaters. The fact that your side kept your assumptions a secret and our didn't does not make you look better.
Now don't get me wrong, it's normal to be paranoid of someone, I'd take actions as well if I knew the game I loved so much and put all my free time in might actually be infested with cheaters and security holes that were easy to abuse. If there was actual tangible evidence here, our clan as a whole would obviously be pretty disappointed at the players that were accused and we wouldn't want to be associated with them anymore. However, you showed how much you actually dont care for anyone in GpW by not even adding a pinch of effort to this post that states that this is all because only a few of our players and not our entire team, to tell people that this is not their excuse to harass GpWers in DMs by sending them bloody cats or Jazz Jackrabbit hentai out of the blue. Or not having a load of CX members raid JJNet with a bunch of GpW hate comments before the announcement was even made. Cause of course, everyone and their mother is allowed to know what's up with GpW instead of GpW themselves. Way to catch us off guard and lose every single bit of respect anyone here used to have for you. And on top of that, people even saw it as an opportunity to lure some of our friends out of the clan and turn them against us. What a friendly competetive playerbase.
I think it's morally wrong to be deceiving someone for so long and later just casually dump them in the trash like that, and then expect that a simple "sorry" cuts the deal. It does not. Your mask is already off. If all this time you were suspecting us of something you could've just told it directly to our face. Not make it worse by building it up by making good relations with us and trying to get any kind of information from us, to then so casually announce that you were actually keeping your eye on us this whole time, and expect that our relations would just magically get better again, justifying it by saying you only did it to catch those specific cheaters. You're horrible human beings for even thinking that. And I never thought I'd see that from people of which most are in their twenties or even thirties. You're not kids, you're grown adults. Kids can sometimes get caught off on the wrong foot, but adults don't have many second chances in life. Just to clarify, this does not only go directly to the team of detectives or whatever, this applies for everyone who were friendly with us and then immediately turned their back against us the moment the ban was announced, without listening to any reasoning from our side. Shows how much we can trust people. Shows how much I could trust my own freaking teammate from team Serbia who lied about not being able to play matches, and saying it in a manner that made me worried about his state in real life and thinking if I should offer any kind of help, while he's actually perfectly fine and just sits back and lets me take his place so people can record me to see if me and my teammates are cheating. Remind me again who the bad guy here is?
So now you're thinking, Jelly, why don't you just keep playing and not give a flying **** about all those people? It's a bit depressing knowing that for the rest of my time being in JJ2 I can't be genuine with anyone anymore in the fear that they're only being nice to me just because they want something from me. I could be doing a lot of other things that are more worthwhile instead of staying up at night worrying about some random douchebags in a video game and trying to get the reputation of me and my clan better despite most of us not even doing anything, except for standing up for our friends, cause, you know, it's a crime to think a different way than the majority.
Anyway, consider this my last ever comment. I even tried making a new account here to post this message. I previously took measures on my old account to make sure that I will never leave my footprint on this dumpsterfire of a website again, but your level of absurdity has forced my hand and you finally made me show myself. Congrats! See you all in another life when you actually learn how to have fun instead of being so invested in trying to be hotshots in a video game."
I stopped commenting here as well, but since I was mentioned, I feel like I should reply.
@Krzy
Insults: I don't remember insulting you. (Especially not your mother, that's not my vocabulary) We might have had fights sometimes, passive-aggressive conversations and we maybe BOTH told each other a few insults. But what you presented here: Lazar insulting you and you being a good fairy and spread happiness, well that's not how it was and you know it. I even remember you raging around recently (the same guy who calls himself "one of the most mature". However, I'm not going to talk about your maturity or any of your clanmates' maturity since we all had a chance to see it in the past month.
"Also he sounds like he is some ultra pro coder but still he is not able to prove that we cheat or at least stop us using it by joining plus team or something." -->It's nice if I sound to you like "some ultra pro coder". However, it never was my intention and I don't think I am. It's not that I'm not able to prove, it's just that I don't want to invest my time in something like that. It's about valuing yourself and your time. Maybe it's fine for you to spend months recording and analyzing gameplay of a 14 years old kid on the internet, but not everyone would do the same. Considering I don't want to waste my time doing the same kind of nonsense analyses (cause I don't consider this a valid proof) and accusations you did, and I also do not want to code any backdoor that could potentially expose cheaters since that would not be legal, I decide not to take any action.
The plus team: What these people do is something that you would get highly paid for in real life. Yet, they do it completely for free. They invest their time and energy into something that doesn't give them anything in return. Then detectives show up and don't even consider using the anti-cheating tool (no bugs were known at that time) that the plus team made. Why they decide to do so - well probably because the main detectives' goal was to ban certain players and not to stop people from cheating. Otherwise, they could just force the anti-cheating tool to be enabled during the games.
Not only that detectives didn't use the existing anti-cheating tool, but also they didn't even report the bug when they discovered it, but who knows how long after. The summary: Plus team is not respected enough by admins and the community. They invest their energy and eventually they get blamed. Their tools are being ignored. And as I said, they're doing programming for free. So I'll answer you with a question: Would you be in such a team?
coincidence.exe You obviously aren't pretty much one of few who actually know what coincidence.exe is. Coincidence.exe is an executable file as you can see from the extension. It maybe has, maybe doesn't have to do anything with your field of study. Well Krzy, when some of us try to calculate the probability of something and fails hard, and pretends to be "mastermind" in the field you study, then you can compare these two things. Using words from a certain field is fine. You can't forbid people to use "coincidence" just because they never studied the probability just as I can't forbid them to use the word "electricity". But making conclusions that only people with actual knowledge can make is not acceptable.
I'm sorry for adding another comment, I did this just because I was mentioned.
"Just to clarify one thing. Ye I agree im so ****ing cocky on jj2 but uh some people think i was like that since 2010 or so and coz of that I deserved that amount of hate and pic editing. Just small plot twist, lazar is insulting me since 2011 and ahmed made that tileset in 2017 after we had an argument during JDC. I dont recall being that much cocky before that. Even more, I was considered one of the most mature of 2010-2012 players generation, people thought im 17-18 when I was like 11. Unlucky my bad english exposed me. Guess i didnt grow up as fast as you did. "
i doesn't matter for how long you have been toxic,it matters if you are still toxic
"And just to answer Naps as he claims im sharing my pics on jj2 channels. Situation you mention was the first one when i shared my pic ON MY OWN and it happend quite recently.I never shared to anyone that pic ahmed edited.So didn’t you but as you said I deserved that. "
i was never talking about any situation you shared a pic in jj2 channel recently,it was another situation where you publicly distributed your pics to a public site and someone got it from there and then send to a7med,i agree that it was not nice from him to do it (to clarify,a7med wasn't the first one to get that,he got it from someone)
"What about you then? "
what about me?, what about you? have you ever been blackmailed into quitting jj2 with the pictures of your family that were never supposed to be published around the internet? being told that they can be used in ads or **** dating sites? your case was just one pic that you published on the internet on your own while i had hundreds of them ripped from my computer without my permission and exposed into a whole tileset also the reason why it happened it wasn't because i was cocky,it was because i was naive to trust people don't even think your situation was slightly comparable to mine,you are stretching that one far than it should be
but ofc,you don't care cause otherwise you won't have anything to say in that regard
"Now we know why admins tried to postpone this announcement so long, most likely they spectated few of cxers. Guess it didn’t work."
also to talk about why this announcement was postponed it's easy,your detectives were busy throwing ddosing accusations at us,which didn't end quite well did they? so they had to take into step 2 which means accusing us of radar
also from what i can tell,kev told me that warren was barely investigated,he literally told me that he had no time or will to start another investigation towards warren let alone the rest of the cxers,so let that idea slide from now
"He watched our videos so carefully just to spot moments he can use to prove his point but in same time he skipped so many moments "
To clarify,it was me who discovered all the cancer that was posted there,it happened accidentally when i had to debunk all the "evidences" it was thrown at pavle and a7med and it was quite shocking to see it tho,i thought you even left that one to taunt us
"didn’t plus team member say that he was aware of that but “it cant be fixed” so he didn’t take any action? Yeah it was after TD found that bug but still it doesn’t explain why plus team didn’t take any step to repair that."
they never said it cannot be fixed neither most of them were aware of all the problems that happened within that anti-radar and if it cannot be fixed,what do you think they are doing now while they are saying they are improving it?
"3. You accuse us of cheating without having any real proof. In same time you cry that we accuse you of cheating when we actually bothered to collect any evidence."
you accuse us of cheating without having any real proof that a7med indeed has radar in his computer,people only gathered his compilation of coincidences which rarely had more than 3 times in a actual clanwar meanwhile warren shows himself being capable of cheating indeed,no one bother'd to do a 30 page PDF document on you because most gpwers never cared about causing this much drama and cancer that it kills the mood of competitive scene only a7med was the only one to tell CJ to investigate hyp,which in return he got a non-meaningful response and yeah,unlike you,we never got the help of any detective or anyone else,we never had that much contact as you have with them to pull this one off and i doubt an investigation on you will even be close to reality if you are aware of being investigated
" Main difference between you and us is that we actually did some steps to prove our point and convince admins.
Yes,you somehow convinced admins with evidence that suddenly got revoked after it being seen as not solid,the ban was rushed and we never had a chance to defend ourselves until the ban was applied. Guess it didn’t work.
"You just throw **** like baboons. Well its fair to assume that your mentality wont give you anything good irl. Crying how bad your situation is yet not trying to fix it in any way. Yeah its easier to blame everyone else. "
It's funny how you are ignoring the fact that when we were debunking an entire document,warren was busy posting memes into it despite being a serious document however i assume he stopped after being told by gry and kev to stfu
"Naps’es analysis, sorry for writing this but you have 0 knowledge about this game. It’s common info that both of us don’t like each other but I don’t want this to be counted as biased opinion. Most of situations you mentioned or when u said sth like “ahmed/pav should do this coz…” made no sense. We can quote lazar “let's try to educate you a little: CTRL+T, "Dunning-Kruger Effect"”. I guess that’s accurate. Pretty much only one thing which could force us (or me, at least) to re analyse all of it was SE and his “your field of view is larger in the direction you're running and spectators don't see that”, but overall it didn’t change much.
Maybe i do maybe i don't,i know that the game requires to have the knowledge on knowing how to check areas and how to be deceptive for my own advantage,that's all i explained in that certain document,i have no idea how checking areas by shooting bullets to prevent/hit an upcoming enemy towards a certain side does not make sense,i thought you aleardy know about this idea that's also why we defend in ctf,to cover entrances from enemies,does it make more sense to you now? or do you still have to pretend that is not tactic that was basically used by you and your members, just because it does not fit your own bias?
"So why did TD and others posted **** in that evidence file while you tried to re analyse it? To be honest, I don’t know. I guess they felt over confident about their point coz you didn’t do any real step to debunk it. "
The only time td actually tried to make an argument was at the first debunking posts,which i cancelled his theory out after that,he saw that there was nothing he can do but spam memes,unlike him,we use words,not pictures to communicate
"And if GPW is certain that cx players are cheating, feel free to prepare your own evidence file. That’s it."
yeah,that will be hard tho as you seem to be all retiring after all of this mess,possibly you won't be able to play normally with the fear of someone trying to pull off this on you aswell never being able to play comfortable ever again
well im being mentioned all the time even when my last activity in this thread was like 1 month ago. I told myself I wont participate in that drama anymore so this is only one comment ill post.
Just to clarify one thing. Ye I agree im so ****ing cocky on jj2 but uh some people think i was like that since 2010 or so and coz of that I deserved that amount of hate and pic editing. Just small plot twist, lazar is insulting me since 2011 and ahmed made that tileset in 2017 after we had an argument during JDC. I dont recall being that much cocky before that. Even more, I was considered one of the most mature of 2010-2012 players generation, people thought im 17-18 when I was like 11. Unlucky my bad english exposed me. Guess i didnt grow up as fast as you did.
And just to answer Naps as he claims im sharing my pics on jj2 channels. Situation you mention was the first one when i shared my pic ON MY OWN and it happend quite recently. I never shared to anyone that pic ahmed edited. So didn’t you but as you said I deserved that. What about you then?
But that aint reason why im writing this. Even if im considered being troll, lets be serious for a moment. You all throw **** in each other, claiming that your opponents have 0 logic, that they not checking facts, that they have brain damage etc. funny to see that all of you do exactly the same. In like 95% of comments i didnt find any sense. Just pure ****.
Lets take a look why this thread has been started. 1. some people (mostly cx, but not only) were suspicious of gpw players 2. they collected evidence pretty much on their own (lets be honest, admins didnt give any **** before we sent them few videos. First mentions of "pavlus probably radarring" was AT LEAST 1 year ago or even more. We were still winning most of the games against gpw in that time) 3. Admins started to react few months ago. Tho most of the suspicious videos they marked as plausible coz we hadnt screen of every player. IMO in that time they were biased in gpw advantage, funny that all of you say that they favour cx 4. When we convinced admins (i mean they rewatched most suspicious moments and decided to ban), this thread started.
Now lets sum up what you did about it. 1. You did your own analysis (will talk about it later) 2. After you started to think that you won this drama, you threw **** into us. Lahm attacking moti that she has 0 knowledge about this situation coz she isn’t active player. Funny that so many inactive players tried to defend you (cmon. Urbs, shadow?) and it was all right. Ahmed mentioning that no actions were taken when he reported TD to admins (mid of may 2020 or sth). It was enough for him to think that he did EVERYTHING he could do in that situation so he takes no responsibility and can blame admins freely. Now we know why admins tried to postpone this announcement so long, most likely they spectated few of cxers. Guess it didn’t work. Also its fun to see how emotional is Ahmed reacting like that to Omar’s trolling. Seems he didn’t care much when he was doing exactly the same to others when they had a bad game, no matter if antiradar was on or off. Naps writing sth like “Hakum admitted cheating” just to prove his point, when it was more than enough to just open that recording and look on credits. Pretty much same situation as this. Gry mentioned CJ, him, moti, me and rag. But it was me, moti and rag who made a trap on him. Admins just rewatched video. Lazar trying to act like some mastermind. “It makes perfect sense that if you want to retire from the competitive scene you report the bug considering you won't be abusing it anymore”. I don’t recall you reporting your radar before you decided to retire for 2 years or so. Lahm doing some propaganda, posting GPW words vs CX words. Most of them are from cx private chats (yep we showed them on videos so I guess we can count that as acquisescence) but he forgets to post some pav/ahmed/lazar ****talk when they insult moms, players, accusing of cheating without any proof etc. Ye, that’s propaganda. He watched our videos so carefully just to spot moments he can use to prove his point but in same time he skipped so many moments when I reported I had fps drops while recording. Yet he dares to ask “is it coincidence” that I didn’t record stronghold. Every of you claim that there wasn’t any report to plus team and only TD was aware of that maxres bypass. didn’t plus team member say that he was aware of that but “it cant be fixed” so he didn’t take any action? Yeah it was after TD found that bug but still it doesn’t explain why plus team didn’t take any step to repair that. Any many more personal attacks I wont even mention. 3. You accuse us of cheating without having any real proof. In same time you cry that we accuse you of cheating when we actually bothered to collect any evidence. 4. You do nothing to prove that we cheat. Your only one argument is that td found maxres bug so fast and that we didn’t record our screens during clanwar plus ahmed said sth like we didn’t win any game while we recorded our screens. LOL, didn’t I record my own screen months ago just to prove that im not cheating? I remember I won most of the games in that period. What I got in exchange? Everyone said that I can get another monitor and put my radar there so it wont be visible on recording. In past 3 years in almost every single game one of us (hyp/td/me) were accused of cheating, yet you DIDN’T record any game, didn’t gather any proof. You did literally nothing. For at least few years Lazar claims he HAS PROOF on me tho he never showed it publicly. Also he sounds like he is some ultra pro coder but still he is not able to prove that we cheat or at least stop us using it by joining plus team or something. Even when I tried to defend myself (I didn’t have to, I guess law says that someone has to prove your fraud, not you proving your innocence) your only answer was sth like “ye ye sure, you cheat anyway. You deserve all of this coz you cocky little ****. Go to hell”. which came first: the chicken or the egg? Which came first: me being cocky or radar accusation? First radar accusations were made months before DT v4 (it was in 2013). I’m 100% sure I wasn’t cocky when I was 14. Yet you blame all on it.
Yeah I agree that most of us are pure trolls and in most situations we do the same as you do. We post gifs, memes etc just to enrage people. We used to make jokes of gpw in comments etc. Main difference between you and us is that we actually made some steps to prove our point and convince admins. You just throw **** like baboons. Well its fair to assume that your mentality wont give you anything good irl. Crying how bad your situation is yet not trying to fix it in any way. Yeah its easier to blame everyone else. Your only one logical reaction was doing that reanalysis. I really appreciate that you took effort on that. Tho you did it in a wrong way. Lazar’s explanations “ye I told pav to do this and that. I remember exactly all of this even when it happened 1 month ago” was just pure bull****. And to Naps’es analysis, sorry for writing this but you have 0 knowledge about this game. It’s common info that both of us don’t like each other but I don’t want this to be counted as biased opinion. Most of situations you mentioned or when u said sth like “ahmed/pav should do this coz…” made no sense. We can quote lazar “let's try to educate you a little: CTRL+T, "Dunning-Kruger Effect"”. I guess that’s accurate. Pretty much only one thing which could force us (or me, at least) to re analyse all of it was SE and his “your field of view is larger in the direction you're running and spectators don't see that”, but overall it didn’t change much. So why did TD and others posted **** in that evidence file while you tried to re analyse it? To be honest, I don’t know. I guess they felt over confident about their point coz you didn’t do any real step to debunk it. Yet all of you think that you debunked every evidence we had and only coz of that Pav and Ahmed were unbanned. Uh, no one even banned them. Bans were never applied as “competitive” play is stopped right now. I believe admins decided to froze season till new antiradar release even if evidence is as strong as it was. Is it good to do it like that? I don’t know. But even when radar drama can be solved in that way, ddos drama is up to be settled. Logs moti used to post were confirmed by server admins so yeah Pav and his merry men are ddosing ppl.
Tho I laughed at this “As someone who spent years studying programming on uni, I'm not going to waste time discussing it with someone who has 0 knowledge and experience in the mentioned field. When your knowledge reaches a much higher level, we can discuss it”. Well I spent ****load of hours studying about statistics, probability theory and econometrics on uni as its my field of study. Does it mean I should have main vote in this drama as I’m pretty much one of few who actually know what coincidence.exe is? Yet all of you use that term so freely. Also I recall some of you named someone else “biggest jj2 loser”. What makes you think that you aint a loser too? You are not any better even if u think you are. I’m a loser too coz I’m part of this sick community for way too long.
Just to sum up, further throwing **** wont help anybody as WE ARENT DECIDING WHETHER TO APPLY BAN OR NOT. So I suggest both sides to shut the **** up as you make literally zero sense. And if GPW is certain that cx players are cheating, feel free to prepare your own evidence file. That’s it.
I really don't understand the level of tribalism in this community. A certain amount of camaraderie between fellow clanmates is healthy, but not at this degree of toxicity and dysfunction.
Just my two cents here but I've always been a firm believer in friendly competition, and the fact that clans in JJ2 have to resort to this sort of petty, juvenile, hostile behaviour towards each other has played a big part in why I've gradually felt driven away from competitive JJ2. I don't want to deal with unnecessary drama, I just want to play for fun and chill out.
Is it really too much to ask for people to try to settle arguments in a calm, adult manner? What is there to gain by getting all riled up at each other? I appreciate that emotions are running high right now due to the nature of the situation, but now isn't the time to cause further discord in our already dwindling community.
As much as I discourage continuing aggressive talk, I highly recommend reading the last 20 comments to everyone who is or feels involved in the clan ladder.
As much as I would like to keep on arguing with warren for hours , I think both Shadow and Rag are right.
As a final note , thanks for dropping the ''big one " https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/713552814365999135/721039756963610654/pav.png
First off , I'd advise you to check your facts before trying to talk x2 , but this is pointless. If you want to have a normal conversation feel free to message me privately.
I also like your edits, to be honest I don't understand what you're trying to do there anyway friend <3 it's not a secret I used to be part of the team that was investigating pavlus and opinions can change since then you get to play with them and you change your opinion , it's something they're already aware of if you are trying to ''leak' something lmao
Warren please,you are a waste of time for everybody,i knew i shouldn't have underestimated your stupidity when i even thought i should have talked to you i forgot you are barely even able to understand basic english and that you are beyond any recovery of your braindamage my bad sorry
Wew, that was quite fast. Anyway, let's make dis quick:
@Naps: tons of gibberish with brain strokes here and there -> Radioactive waste
@Lahm: wow lahm you fell into it so fast! but let me make it clear to ya before I drop The Big One!
1.Ever heard of reading? I heard it's quite indispensable, so please try re-reading the post stating 'ladder suspended indefinitely' and ohhh sadly you only know half the story of kev's post.
2. Again deflecting the topic with me cheating... sure lulz but I already told ya what to do if u really want me to elaborate on this so please again get better lens to read gosh.
3. The point of this reply primarily is just for The Big One so let's pretend that I am lahm for a second:
" First off , I'd advise you to check your facts before trying to talk ****"
SOOO again.... I ****ING implore you to stop ****posting and don't think of calling me out for posting private **** cuz u literally did the same lmao xD. but now you owe rag a sincere apology ;d shows how much of a twat you can be.
And heeeey. I don't see the 'friends' part that u talking about? just the '100% percent sure lol'
AGAIN, PLEASE STOP POSTING LIES. TY.
EDIT: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/503648618725507084/721037828536008764/unknown.png nice stuff u doing for your 'friends'
What does every douchebag Cx member have in common beside a micropenis, fake anergetic attitude nonsense ****?
[14:13:52] HyperionCx: I stopped using it when antiradar came out [21:46:17] HyperionCC: why is antiradar on i cant fkn see health [21:16:53] not el Kristo: why u enabled antiradar lol [23:48:32] KingCx: i just realized the radar gives this map a checkboard layout
[20:41:01] not el Kristo: hor used radar too [20:41:03] not el Kristo: right hor? [20:41:09] horcx: i was born a cheater lol
WHY YOU KEEP LOSING EVERY CLANWAR YOU RECORD????? BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO USE ANYTHING ?
boohoo warren did we make you cry? EDIT : thats how you do comedy right there take notes and.... never do anything this retard said and you achieved comedy!
idk why i am even editing my comment to insult a kid i am a full-grown man i am not a snot-nosed multiplication table learning little ***** but at least i am still a hairy **** hairy asshole man so why am i insulting childeren like you on this ****ty platform? well the reason is your ****ty humour the main reason i target the douchebags like you because you are a very bad example to chilren like omar who are very impressionable so you have retard douchebags people like you, the micropenis poster that keeps spamming stupid memes what really makes me sad is omar emulate that type of behavior so he start acting like you a huge piece of **** a kid trying to become a piece of **** and if its not from emulating your behaviour then it's from emulating that drunk alcholic addicted piece of **** moti being uneducated ****ing loser is now the cool thing. but when talking about this platform i do think when you have these douchbags detectives who make bunch of retarded proofs for their own financial gain and they're doing it for malicious intent that's something you really need to think about and take a look at.
and in my eyes if i can at least show people why the person is a douchebag that's a big win because it makes people aware but the douchebag never gonna change.
Man I don't even where to start with this stupidity to be honest . First off , I'd advise you to check your facts before trying to talk **** . What I told rag was that I am joining GpW to be with my friends and have fun with them and that sure it's a bonus finding out whether they have radar. And you're right anyway! Thanks for pointing it out . If anything , someone that joins the clan to see if a7med/pav have radar ( was not the case , it can be confirmed that I joined to play with my friends ) should have more of a say than your biased ass can say. When you play with those ****rds you realize that they also tell you information that is fake i.e them thinking they hit enemy when in reality they didn't and so forth! I also think that you have misunderstood the situation a bit on Kev's stance as Kev himself has stated that they should remain unbanned , or have you not read that since you were too busy posting trollish memes? Bee herself has stated ( yesterday!) that she does not think a7med is cheating and yet you still have the guts to mention them? Funny enough that you mention the t3 story and I thank you for doing it . I left t3 because SJ/BR and I had disagreements on who should play in clanwars and there was nothing more lol , I to this day I am in good terms with the entirety of t3 and in no way did that traumatize me lmao. To even talk about being traumatized from the demotion let me ask you , are you just pulling **** from your ass to make it seem better? was I angry the day I got demoted and did I have a conversation with gry about it ? yes. Did I also message Gry 2 days after and had a normal chat where I told him I don't care anymore and I helped him with my opinion on the matter? yes. Good thing you also mentioned Jelly , I commend you for that! Jelly didn't abandon us and in no way did he give up on us. If anything Jelly abandoned jj2 as a whole when he saw how retarded and biased this community was.
Actually, as matter of fact since you weren't diplomatic/ lights on your words , let me put it to you like this : to me it looks our comments made you mad enough that you finally decided to be a normal human being and actually posted in non retard language. But don't stop me from telling you that right now you look like a biased piece of **** who has nothing better to do than posting memes and adding fuel to the fire lol . There's a reason why pav and a7med are unbanned and why Kev stated that they should remain unbanned but your biased ass just can't seem to understand that unless you are spoon fed them. Even notice how you didn't even try to deny those accusations towards you and you just said ''they are trying to deviate from the situation'' when it's literally the same thing that you are doing , you hypocrite. Good thing that you even said ''unbanned'. Yeah , I can guarantee you that at least a7med will stay unbanned from this ****hole that you created and you will eat your words so I advise you to stop being stupid . I wouldn't consider posting memes and pretending to be funny as a ''sane person ''thing anyway just for your information. You also say that I ommited a7med's words , I also advise you to check my line in the previous post where I stated that sure , a7med is stupid but most of the things that he said are in retaliation to what you guys have said . I'm not saying a7med is an innocent saint in this flame war because let's be honest, he isn't but it's not like you guys are either both parties are guilty for it and you can't deny that which is something that you have tried to do until now. So what if in your mind you are insulting scum? Can't the same be said about you ? If a7med insults you the same thing can be said , he is insulting scum in his mind ( which day by day I tend to agree with him when I look at you being retarded posting memes daily and trying to make this situation even worse).
To me it looks like you got defeated by counter-evidence and a7med/pav being unbanned and then decided to post troll stuff in order to add fuel to the fire but then when you saw you're being accused as well you suddenly changed gears and started deflecting it and saying we only started accusing you because we are trying to deflect blame , which is not true because as I said in my previous post , we only started doing it once they were unbanned Now , you have proven to me that you can also be a normal human being like 1 in 1000 occasions so I urge you to stop being retarded and just admit that you lost the past 3 finals fair and square and you're just a sore little loser ?: <3 When CX won the ladder season 4 times in a row all you were saying was ''git gud'' and ''radar in 2k19'' but when you started losing you shifted gears and started being a salty little child (XD! as you said ). To put in retrospective , instead of being a normal human being and actually analyzing the evidence and trying to argue with naps and lazar about it on the evidence docs , you instead opted for the easy way out : post gifs and pretend like you are smart . You really think that posting gifs instead of actually analyzing the evidence is going to help you ? give me a break.
As a message to everyone not just Warren , Moti is right . Toxicity is what got us here and playing the blame game isn't going to work . Instead of being sore losers and accusing the people that are finally good enough to beat you how about you admit the reality ? They were just better than you ! Tell me how many times you guys trained in the past 2 years and then compare that to how many times GpW has trained and think again. Warren is also the one who started posting coincidence.exe and other comments meant to literally trigger other people for enjoyment instead of actually being an objective detective as other people have been . Someone like Kev has earned my respect because he was actually very productive in all this mess and he did an immense job fixing this whole mess that the previous staff created by preemptively posting this ****hole without checking evidence. This is a bunny game people not league of legends. Stop being stupid and actually start to enjoy the game for once and stop ruining the game for other people by falsely accusing them for radar and then insulting them and their mother + cat for it. As a final message to Warren ( love you ) , you said it yourself that flaming people deserve it so I can guarantee you that someone as cocky as Kris also deserves it most of the time and you also tried to shift blame by saying '' THEY ALSO DID IT !!!! " when we mentioned the abuse to a7med , again ****ing hypocritical.
As final words , you say that we belong in trash but shouldn't you theoretically be the one who belongs in trash since you lost the past 3 seasons ?
Oh,too bad we were not really that cringe to post memes or copying other people's quote because you clearly have the disability to make an argument on your own honestly warren,you have done nothing to contribute to this conversation apart from proving that you can get retarded each post
and who are you to even talk about incoherence
just posts ago moti was posting senseless stuff while you spammed the site also the evidence file with cringe memes in attempt to be funny but in reality you are quite a sad loser,even judging by the way you even typed that post it probably sounded much cooler in your head,but please sit down,be busy licking kyro's ass or do any similar activities that belongs to your agenda
"Okay so apart from that animal part (Apparently he had a brain stroke there as usual topkek, oh wait he's in this state nvm then.), are you ever aware of what you are saying? yeah yeah good ol' story of krzy being super arrogant and rude, but so what? I'd just expect ya to do the same in return in the same manner but ohhhh GpW so-called tradition and honor dictates that a level of krzy with magnified ears is to be created and hosted on GpW server, aside from hosting a repurposed version of my mutator to crash krzy invariably. Oh got an idea.. you know what? I might as well by your logic say that Electron leaking your nudes in a j2t form is one hundred percent justified because "it's something you asked for it" and debate over that endlessly!"
i didn't expect you to be pretty much of a sub human who brings up everything so he can "roast" people but we are talking about warren,the biggest loser on jj2,being a sack of **** that he always was once again,ofc he had to lick my ass until GpW got accused of "cheating" and then call me retarded afterwards
i can give to your good-for-nothing brain an advice that theres a difference between sending your public pictures to someone else just like krzy did while talking **** to alot of people within this community while i had to get my PC hacked because i simply trusted an individual that shouldn't be trusted yeah don't even compare that incident to mine,but ofc,you cannot be called fully retarded until you reach warren's level i even felt sorry for you when a7med kept telling you that you were hiding like cockroaches from turks because they ddos you,but it seems that if you want to keep to that personal level,then i should not feel sorry at all in this regard
on a side note: i didn't care neither concentrated on that game or should i mention the time when omar pwned krzy in the same map also how is this relevant to this discussion? you derivate yourself from the topic more than anyone else
also still doesn't beats your ability to impress someone with your stupidity when you show you don't know how the ctf arrow works despite being in a warteam,maybe you didn't even needed that arrow because radar or higher resolution was way better, warren you are a special kind of stupid, so special that no one cannot surpass that in any way,please do all of us a favor and jump off a cliff,maybe hitting your head hard will be enough to kill your brain tumour if i can even call whatever inside that skull of yours "brain"
it's funny how much important do you think you are even tho you are not worth cat ****
btw warren,how can i justify something by voice chat if i wasn't even in the voice chat? your idiocy is the real eclipse of this planet
Because I didn't fashionably celebrate the event of me posting the 100th comment here, it's time to spice this up a little since those dummies from GpW failed to entertain me.... I am so unimpressed (gosh.... I miss Slayer's good ol' days). To be honest, I really expected ya to come up with something amusing for a good laugh just like the old days but meh ya all ended up posting either incoherent twaddle or stupidly cooked up scenarios (really bad for business m8 ).
SOO... I am going to do ya a great favor and convince ya to enter a state of cooldown for a bit to refrain from posting stuff that simply shows your unquantifiable levels of retardation (Sorry, got no other way to put that one... lel). Oh yes, not to mention the way in which those dummies are desperately attempting to deviate from the original topic!
'CUT TO THE CHASE. WHATCHA GONNA DO NOW?' Nothing really noteworthy apart from giving those dummies a proper presentation of my own.... Which begins now and is as follows:
1. Naps: my gawd.... remember when I said "unquantifiable levels of retardation"? You got none to blame but him for this one. I mean literally he's flagship of what stands against every single basic principle of sound reason and common sense(Sometimes 'Common Sense' in a materialized form haunted me in my dreams demanding blood to be spilt for all the atrocities perpetrated.). Okay, that was some lovely likening, but seriously though I applaud for your brain cells being capable of not overheating nor burning out despite processing untold gibberish AND being very willing to live in the fantasy of it being a 'generally acknowledged universal law' or something of that sort, but I think you are more than content that it's exclusively accepted by those dummies you call clanmates lmao. Of course I am eventually gonna point out some lovely stuff of his own before ending this lovely presentation!
"Krzy getting bullied for 5 years is something he had asked for,if he behaved more nicely towards people he would have got more respect in return. justifying animal abuse over a picture that was send to someone under consent doesn't makes what he did much lower" ~ Naps
Okay so apart from that animal part (Apparently he had a brain stroke there as usual topkek, oh wait he's in this state nvm then.), are you ever aware of what you are saying? yeah yeah good ol' story of krzy being super arrogant and rude, but so what? I'd just expect ya to do the same in return in the same manner but ohhhh GpW so-called tradition and honor dictates that a level of krzy with magnified ears is to be created and hosted on GpW server, aside from hosting a repurposed version of my mutator to crash krzy invariably. Oh got an idea.. you know what? I might as well by your logic say that Electron leaking your nudes in a j2t form is one hundred percent justified because "it's something you asked for it" and debate over that endlessly!
On a side note: ya know naps... you losing vs brinko just tells how vast your knowledge is regarding 'jj2 tactics and starts' Okay we're finally done here!
2. Lahm: Okay this one is a bit complicated.... but really Lahm I am so frustrated m8 that you weirdly and abruptly changed your pants that fast but let's set the story of you and your hunger for power in t3 which bit you in the ass eventually aside, I thought you were originally going to GpW to investigate the possibility of them radaring (YOUR OWN WORDS) but man... what a sad end. Okay back to the topic. Now you seem like some kind of politician who is just trying to push some kind of senseless propaganda in a desperate attempt to convince the public that cx is bad and malicious and ohhh therefore the accusation started when it aggrovated... Damn always detests politicians, but maybe try posting something with full story rather than half story...? because it straight up makes u look lousy(and you wonder why you got demoted XDDDDDDDDDDD). I never imagined you'd change your pants just because of being traumatized by a demotion that was well-deserved anyway or even by t3's story lol(I don't know which is worst lmao). so maybe just stop deflecting the topic for a ****ing second because it won't help ya in any way, thank.
EXAMPLE: "CX WORDS vs GpW WORDS" Dude, are you out of ur mind? I mean apart from that our words were even justified KNOWING THAT we were playing vs filthy cheaters I don't see how'd be put in a way other than this, but what's even more hilarious is how you omitted A7med's words for example flaming 24/7 along with hurling groundless radar accusations just to get over the 'guilt' of cheating. Also, don't ya see it already? Jelly abandoned your ****hole because he saw it coming:
[00:36:28] pav: imam notebook [00:36:29] pav: zove se [00:36:32] pav: crna sveska [00:36:33] pav: imam svacije ipo [00:36:42] pav: samo cekam [00:36:43] pav: xD [00:37:10] Jelly[GpW]Jam: pavle pazi samo s tim molim te 00:37:19] Jelly[GpW]Jam: ako rusis servere mogu da te banuju sa liste i sa jjneta i [00:37:20] Jelly[GpW]Jam: svega redom [00:37:24] Jelly[GpW]Jam: pa posle neces smeti da igras ladere
tl;dr: pav saying he has ips of some ppl and jelly telling him to be careful lest he get banned from jjnet ladders
BUT, that's one reason... remember the 40-0 incident? what a sad story.. You just put all the blame on jelly when you forfeited.. really shame on you. EVENTUALLY, I advise you Lahm to overcome your emotional bullcrap and think like a sane person for once, Thank again.
3. Artegor: GpW's biggest liar and the most shady one. You really don't learn, do ya? Because of you lying concerning pav's unawareness of ddos whereas there's a ****ing log saying otherwise. NOT TO MENTION, cooking up a high level of bull**** in the so-called 'the evidence debunk of gpw' where you justify 90% of pav's moments by VC that you remember in exact detail despite being like a month old(Naps didn't even justify 1 moment from a7med by VC which is telling LMAO) but to top it all off, you overlooked one thing in your 'debunk section' where you even LIED saying some sort of VC that can't even happen because spawntime was SOOO wrong which makes me so ****ing skeptical about all of your justifications with VC(even the rest that has no VC justificatios are trash like nap's.. same worth). Tbh, I don't even exclude the possibilty of you being responsibile for giving a7med/pav the 'magic' but let's not get there! And of course like the rest of your dear dummies you now triharding to deflect the topic with the 'oh no, wrn cheating now'!(lahm not leaking stuff when, again wonders why he got demoted XDDDDDDDDD). So yeah you can all keep barking up the wrong tree for all I care cuz it all does nothing but getting you utter embarrassment.(which all like!). So, if you are sure of me cheating just spot the suspicious moments I had in a non-gpw way otherwise simply shove all you said up your asses, don't really care.
On a side note: It doesn't really need a real badass to figure out the maxres exploit, you are just so damn mentally impaired and just suffering from "Dunning-Kruger Effect"(or you know and pretend to be ignorant).
4. A7med: won't even waste my breath over the world's filthiest garbage. Simply a brainless twat and a butthurt cheater.
[00:35:59] A7med[GpW]: i tried to cheat with bigjazz before but [00:35:59] Jelly[GpW]Jam: seekers are op in version 1.00 [00:36:00] zn'gpw: peppers was differen't I remember? [00:36:01] A7med[GpW]: its useless [00:36:06] Henry Avery: max resolution [00:36:07] A7med[GpW]: hard to cheat using it
In short: GpW just trying to deviate from the main topic and push for "ohh, cx bad... thus the accusations" (most obvious in lahm's case) or "wrn cheating now" and that since A7med's post of gibberish. Don't worry dummies, it's not gonna work. . Funny, how a7med spoke for his self-defense by just accusing others xDDDDDDDd. You are so bad. Before I conclude, just don't go with the thought of 'bias' cuz in case you didn't notice you ***s saw kev/maxi here right? let alone SJ(yeah yeah go assume he left afterwards for any of your cooked up ****ty reasons just for your own convenience rofl) .and lastly I just implore you all for the sake of Mother Nature to just wrap up yourselves along with your twaddle and find the nearest trash bin, that's exactly where you belong. CYA.
"exactly naps,the news post considered radar! so no need to report another cheating method just to have an explanation of how they might have cheated."
--> it also says "equivalent software to gain more vision on their opponents in game"
"well let's say theres no proof of either possibility (despite the detective posting a screenshot of himself,having a resolution exploit running in the screen)" --> that doesnt prove he was using it in during games. thats like accusing everyone of cheating who uses bigjazz/radar/cheatengine outside of actual games. thats not forbidden. ofc he would demonstrate it in order to report it. afaik a7med even used cheat engine during a duel to get unstuck, imo that might be legit.
--> except that people were actually accused of using radar outside actual games (such as krzy vs a7med,egy vs srb training)
"for one there was "evidence", but not for the other one. again how ****ed would it be if someone reports a new cheating method (contributing to fair play) and then gets banned for "potential cheating"?
--> but you have "evidence" for the other one too,it is aleardy ****ed that you can put dirt in someone's name by filling a document file but no proof of him actually having a cheating program that does such thing meanwhile you have warren,who is shown being capable of doing such thing,why is it ****ed to investigate him aswell? just because he reported the cheating method? and tbh he didn't even reported the cheating method or how to do it,he just reported that he can do that if hakum actually reported the ammo hack or slayer reported his own radar,would it clean him from his cheating accusations? no it wouldn't
"that was 2 weeks earlier. myb his connection wasnt slowed down yet at that time. dunno."
--> what a coincidence isn't it? see how coincidences start to gather? are you his provider to even prove that his connection was changed during that time?
"that's false,a plus developer just a few posts ago said that enabling antiradar cannot increase lag in any meaningful way" --> https://imgur.com/q1j2s1G - thats from the jj2+ readme. dunno what else causes the major lags for people while playing with anti radar.
--> are you implying that the official servers do not have internet connections that are fast enough? also,it's server-side connection that they are talking about,not client-side connection
"there was only one game in which all opponents were recorded. therefore in all other games many offscreen reactions might have been unnoticed. feel free to record any other "suspicious" player for the same number of games in the same time period and see how many suspicious moments that player has."
--> We could do that,but it won't happen and we know why,when these people recorded they were actually aware of being recorded and tried to dodge any suspicious acitivity themselves,also i find it funny they are only victorious when they actually stop recording their screen
"i cant find recordings of the other 6 rounds. i guess this round was the only one that was recorded."
--> or maybe no one found the rest of the matches "interesting" and they decided to cut the video
"yes lets ban warren for contributing to fair play by reporting an unknown cheating method."
--> what about making a pdf with 30 pages of him aswell,afterall,you are a detective,you should also investigate his behavior,does that mean any cheater can just report their own radar to get rid of their accusations nowdays?
I think that since I have most recently been in GPW and CX during the last 2 years, (I think that also Moti, Hordy, Afii, and idk who else was in both CX and GPW before), I should also confess to my wrongdoings that may have been a role in this dilemme
I sent a graphical representation of a cookie that may (or may not) include spyware that could (or could not) be able to function as a radar
This is the image of a cookie in question, as you can (or can not) see, it might (or might not) taste like deliciously baked mix of flour and sugar with built-in chocolate chips
https://i.postimg.cc/k5JMM1SD/image0.jpg
... (A warning to the uninitialized and uninformed, these decepticookies are not actually edible cookies, they are imposters that invade your life through your computer web browser, and extract then delete your intellect, much like a gravity-anomaly would attract and destroy information. They pose as cookies in order to present the appearance of being harmful nd innocent, when in actuality they are maliciously and sinister. Donot be deceived, donot believe that these cookies are equivalent to the yummy tasty vital food group. To be clear: DO NOT EAT ANY COOKIES YOU GOT FROM A WEBSITE) ...
"the news post clearly states:" --> exactly naps,the news post considered radar! so no need to report another cheating method just to have an explanation of how they might have cheated.
"well let's say theres no proof of either possibility (despite the detective posting a screenshot of himself,having a resolution exploit running in the screen)" --> that doesnt prove he was using it in during games. thats like accusing everyone of cheating who uses bigjazz/radar/cheatengine outside of actual games. thats not forbidden. ofc he would demonstrate it in order to report it. afaik a7med even used cheat engine during a duel to get unstuck, imo that might be legit.
"but one gets the bad light of getting insulted,being called a cheater and even have a ban for "potential cheating" and one doesn't?" --> for one there was "evidence", but not for the other one. again how ****ed would it be if someone reports a new cheating method (contributing to fair play) and then gets banned for "potential cheating"?
"however his egy connection allowed him to record the krzy vs a7med duel,also he could have recorded all the rounds separately" --> that was 2 weeks earlier. myb his connection wasnt slowed down yet at that time. dunno.
"that's false,a plus developer just a few posts ago said that enabling antiradar cannot increase lag in any meaningful way" --> https://imgur.com/q1j2s1G - thats from the jj2+ readme. dunno what else causes the major lags for people while playing with anti radar.
"and each clanwar session had like 5 or less evidences each time" --> there was only one game in which all opponents were recorded. therefore in all other games many offscreen reactions might have been unnoticed. feel free to record any other "suspicious" player for the same number of games in the same time period and see how many suspicious moments that player has.
"atleast like 7 matches being played at that time,so are you telling me that the best you could come up in 1 hour and 10 minutes is just 1 evidence?" --> i cant find recordings of the other 6 rounds. i guess this round was the only one that was recorded.
"someone out of all sudden comes up,shows hax and nobody even raises an eyebrow,he doesn't gets a pdf file of 30 pages or anything of the sort" --> yes lets ban warren for contributing to fair play by reporting an unknown cheating method.
"dunno, i guess this was known ever since anti radar was created. are the people who made antiradar part of the + team?"
--> if it was known since it was ever created they could have asked plus team to tweak it and i don't recall this being known since it was created because i was there when it was tested under the mutator form,basically the prototype of anti-radar and no one reported to have seen the extra 12 tiles view even then
"i meant the "post" on discord, which a7med was talking about. oh or did he mean the jjnet "post"? dunno."
--> yes he meant the jjnet post
"the argument/method is radar. there would be no need to report the maxres hack for that reason."
the news post clearly states: " There has been an increasing amount of video and chatlog evidence of both players using a radar or equivalent software to gain more vision on their opponents in game."
"yeah, but now what? xd there is no proof for either possibility. its still not plausible that he would report his own cheating method, which was unknown to everyone else."
--> well let's say theres no proof of either possibility (despite the detective posting a screenshot of himself,having a resolution exploit running in the screen) but one gets the bad light of getting insulted,being called a cheater and even have a ban for "potential cheating" and one doesn't?,i don't think something is right here like i mentioned before,he wouldn't need that cheating method after he retires
"oh does warren retire from the competetive scene?"
--> https://imgur.com/a/FHJCh72
"afaik his egy internet connection was already slow at that time, which is why uploading such a long video would have taken ages. thats why we decided to record warren. and afaik krzy stopped recording due to fps dropping."
--> however his egy connection allowed him to record the krzy vs a7med duel,also he could have recorded all the rounds separately
"idk how many games you are refering to in order to justify that statement. might be thats correct, but perhaps he just played bad bcs the antiradar caused major lags and 3hks for him? that would be a plausible explanation. (at least thats what people keep complaining about while playing with anti radar.)"
--> that's false,a plus developer just a few posts ago said that enabling antiradar cannot increase lag in any meaningful way
"or it was coincidence, just like more than 25 moments of pavlus were coincidence, inlcuding even more coincidental circumstances in the given situations, based on your explanations in our discussion document."
--> all the coincidences were gathered from like 8 matches that contained like 4-6 rounds under timelimit of 10
we can agree at this point that a clanwar session is basically under 40 minutes or a hour
and each clanwar session had like 5 or less evidences each time,so that means atleast 5 evidences in one hour,sometimes there was no evidence an entire round, also during egy vs srb training,there was one evidence and i was told that there were atleast like 7 matches being played at that time,so are you telling me that the best you could come up in 1 hour and 10 minutes is just 1 evidence? it's easy to say that there are alot of evidences if you gather them like that while in reality,it's not that really frequent as the documents tries to make them
"where is this going? accusing another player of cheating without having sufficient evidence?"
--> Maybe it's about time they also get to feel of how it's like being accused with insufficient evidence aswell I think it's funny how there are people investigating just investigating a7med out of all sudden as if the same was done for everyone,he didn't even said he had radar or anything unlike the previous confirmed cheaters but when someone out of all sudden comes up,shows hax screenshot and nobody even raises an eyebrow,he doesn't gets a pdf file of 30 pages or anything of the sort
"It makes perfect sense that if you want to retire from the competitive scene you report the bug considering you won't be abusing it anymore." --> oh does warren retire from the competetive scene?
"Missing Wrn's screen while everyone else's was recorded." --> afaik his egy internet connection was already slow at that time, which is why uploading such a long video would have taken ages. thats why we decided to record warren. and afaik krzy stopped recording due to fps dropping.
"I read somewhere that he found it "in 5 mins"." --> i was quoting a7med, he said so earlier.
"Constantly having a bad performance with AR on while he played very well with AR off." --> idk how many games you are refering to in order to justify that statement. might be thats correct, but perhaps he just played bad bcs the antiradar caused major lags and 3hks for him? that would be a plausible explanation. (at least thats what people keep complaining about while playing with anti radar.) or it was coincidence, just like more than 25 moments of pavlus were coincidence, inlcuding even more coincidental circumstances in the given situations, based on your explanations in our discussion document.
where is this going? accusing another player of cheating without having sufficient evidence?
"1) I just find it weird that the plus team missed such a bug. 12 tiles is a lot." --> dunno, maybe there was a reason why they made it like that.
"However, even if I don't think CJ would lie, I'd still love to see the actual test and proof of what you are saying." --> like i said in my previous comment, everyone can check it by using radar.mut and anti radar. again, if im giving wrong information here, someone of the +team/antiradar team please correct me.
It makes perfect sense that if you want to retire from the competitive scene you report the bug considering you won't be abusing it anymore. Was Wrn suspicious? Well Idk, you tell me. Missing Wrn's screen while everyone else's was recorded. Finding maxres bug just in the perfect timing. (I read somewhere that he found it "in 5 mins". I already explained the absurdity of this in the previous comment.)Testing it in PN. Constantly having a bad performance with AR on while he played very well with AR off.
1) I just find it weird that the plus team missed such a bug. 12 tiles is a lot. However, even if I don't think CJ would lie, I'd still love to see the actual test and proof of what you are saying.
@naps "Why wasn't the ability of viewing extra 12 tiles reported before after noticing it? no one even mentioned it to plus team at all to fix it and besides,no one even asked them to confirm if they are aware of that or not" --> dunno, i guess this was known ever since anti radar was created. are the people who made antiradar part of the + team?
"i have no idea of what do you mean by "that there was a post of maxres being bypassable",what post do you mean?" --> i meant the "post" on discord, which a7med was talking about. oh or did he mean the jjnet "post"? dunno.
"So he can use it as an argument of how a7med could have cheated" --> the argument/method is radar. there would be no need to report the maxres hack for that reason.
"he could have just pretended he did not know the entire time and then claimed he just discovered it on that point" --> yeah, but now what? xd there is no proof for either possibility. its still not plausible that he would report his own cheating method, which was unknown to everyone else.
@artegor "To make him less suspicious." --> was warren that suspicious in the first place? even if few people would have accused him of cheating, i seriously doubt he would have thought "omg some people accuse me of cheating without having evidence, im afraid i get banned soon, i better report my secret cheating method, instead of just using it more carefully, to become less suspicious." - nah. the opposite is the case now: instead of making himself LESS suspicious by reporting it, people claim he knew about it for a long time and cheated with it, making him MORE suspicious, in some people's opinion. i still dont understand how it would make sense that he would report his own secret cheating method so that +team could possibly find a protection against it, making him lose his unfair advantage. imagine you'd find a new cheating method, you report it to contribute to make the game fair and then people start accusing you of cheating with it, gg xd
1) --> sj told me. as far as i know everyone can check it: enable antiradar, enable radar.mut and see how far offscreen players' location is seen correctly. 2) --> no, i am not saying the person needed 5 minutes to find it. you will need to ask the person who found it.
Your comment makes no sense and is relevant just as any comment in the programming code.
As someone who spent years studying programming on uni, I'm not going to waste time discussing it with someone who has 0 knowledge and experience in the mentioned field. When your knowledge reaches a much higher level, we can discuss it.
@Kev
"...why would he report his OWN cheating method?" -To make him less suspicious.
A lot of misinformation was around. I'd love to ask a few questions: 1) How did you conclude that with antiradar on you can still see extra 12 tiles? Did you test it yourself - if yes, how; or did someone tell you - if yes, who? 2) I've seen the screen of extended max resolution in some discord group before the post tho. Which makes me wonder for how long this bug was known. So, you're still saying that the person who found the bug needed 5 minutes to find it? Is that person studying cybersecurity or something? Cause this amount of time to find how to bypass something is really impressive. Or was coincidence.exe used to guess the right memory address?
Thank you in advance for answering. Have a nice evening.
"like i stated in my previous comment, a comparison of performance with antiradar on/off is probably pointless, if it allows an extra vision of 12 tiles in every direction."
--> Why wasn't the ability of viewing extra 12 tiles reported before after noticing it? no one even mentioned it to plus team at all to fix it and besides,no one even asked them to confirm if they are aware of that or not
"again someone please explain how a resolution cheat bypasses anti radar? i guess one would simply see flase player location on the increased screen"
--> again,you answered that by yourself,you mentioned being able to view players from extra 12 tiles in every direction making antiradar useless,however that's not enough to bypass it,you need a program that makes you be able to view those 12 extra tiles in every direction and that means either radar or resolution hack
"warren was the one who found it. apparently it is impossible that there was a post of maxres being bypassable, if warren found out how to bypass maxres "5 minutes after that post"."
--> i have no idea of what do you mean by "that there was a post of maxres being bypassable",what post do you mean?
"like i stated in my previous comment, i assume this, because there was a discussion about which exact cheating method could have been used and thats when warren figured it out. that seems plausible. ofc i dont know for sure. but let's assume warren knew about this for a long time and was cheating with it: why would he report his OWN cheating method? that does not seem plausible."
--> He is asking if it's really safe to assume that he knew it within a short time range between the post and his discovery why would he even admit he discovered it for a long time? to be blamed of cheating? he could have just pretended he did not know the entire time and then claimed he just discovered it on that point
"why would he report his OWN cheating method?"
--> So he can use it as an argument of how a7med could have cheated,basically he aleardy claimed that he was retiring so why wouldn't he gave up his cheating method before stop playing the game once and for all?
"no, i am trying to stay objective. thats why i stated that pav and u should stay UNbanned, after i reviewed the evidence."
--> I respect your objectivity regarding that part,however there was a lack of objectivity from your side regarding what a7med was refering to
@a7med "because the scripted plan that Cx and jjnet crew came up with wouldn't work if we pwned our opponents with antiradar on" --> like i stated in my previous comment, a comparison of performance with antiradar on/off is probably pointless, if it allows an extra vision of 12 tiles in every direction.
"then they used it as a proof that antiradar is bypassable" --> again someone please explain how a resolution cheat bypasses anti radar? i guess one would simply see flase player location on the increased screen.
"so you telling me that it took warren 5 minutes after that post to figure out how to bypass antiradar and in game maxres?" --> warren was the one who found it. apparently it is impossible that there was a post of maxres being bypassable, if warren found out how to bypass maxres "5 minutes after that post".
"and why don't you assume that he knew about this all long?" --> like i stated in my previous comment, i assume this, because there was a discussion about which exact cheating method could have been used and thats when warren figured it out. that seems plausible. ofc i dont know for sure. but let's assume warren knew about this for a long time and was cheating with it: why would he report his OWN cheating method? that does not seem plausible.
"or you just like to assume on your favour?" --> no, i am trying to stay objective. thats why i stated that pav and u should stay UNbanned, after i reviewed the evidence.
Anti-radar has indeed had some bugs spoiling the player experience that the JJ2+ team was not aware of (as they were never reported).
This should by and large be covered by version 5.8.
However, enabling antiradar cannot increase lag in any meaningful way. It changes the information that is sent, not the amount of information or how fast it is transmitted.
And that's exactly why other fingers were pointed only after they got unbanned? To be precise , 2 days after the ban post , both were unbanned.
I'd also like to appeal to your normal human being side (if that still exists) and urge you to stop posting stupid memes which make you look even more horrible in the public eye.
Taking less than 4 hours to code something is nothing more than just your opinion, and considering you're not a "JJ2 coder" or software engineer, I'll let you rate on a scale from 1 to 10 - how relevant is what you said.
Now that we can both agree that your opinion on the topic you know nothing about is relevant 1 on a scale from 1 to 10, let's try to educate you a little: CTRL+T, "Dunning-Kruger Effect".
I think it takes roughly less than 4 hours for a skilled JJ2 coder to create a working cheat that is capable of bypassing the anticheat measures.
The term 'radar' should be replaced with 'cheating', even for the review of evidence as quite a lot of the cases can be also explained by an extended maxresolution which is a far more intuitive answer than luck or councidence.
hi mr detective kev, let me explain to you why antiradar was off because the scripted plan that Cx and jjnet crew came up with wouldn't work if we pwned our opponents with antiradar on so they had to make sure it was off because everyone on the site was going to say "yea man but antiradar was on tho i dont buy to this ****" but fortunately a player from Cx posted a screen in jj2 discord of her clanmates abusing maxres (that wasn't reported before but got reported after she leaked it) then they used it as a proof that antiradar is bypassable "warren discoverd the maxres abuse recently" so you telling me that it took warren 5 minutes after that post to figure out how to bypass antiradar and in game maxres? and why don't you assume that he knew about this all long? or you just like to assume on your favour?
"so are you telling me that the resolution hack got discovered recently but the ability to see further than 12 tiles was discovered long ago? and it wasn't reported?"
no u have an extra vision of less than 12 tiles offscreen, not more. idk when that was "discovered". id assume the people who created the anti radar knew about it all along.
Quoting moti ''learn how to lose and win and learn the line between the banter and flame. this community has such a potential, really, i dont know why all of us just tend to ruin it and pass our life frustration on one another and yeah i am talking also about myself.''
On the other hand, when antiradar was implemented and I asked why people don't play with /antiradar on, some of them claimed that ''it lags and is unplayable''. While I personally never had any issues with antiradar on, a group of players always claimed that it lags for them and often ends up as a 3hk.
This all makes me think now... was that group of players in a conspiracy deal? Have they maybe made up a story to just avoid playing with /antiradar on because they had radar and they kept cheating even with the new implemented command?
Whatever the story is, the conclusion is the same. I will still suspect that some people cheat until I am proven wrong. But I don't want to look for proofs and try to prove something myself because I have no time for that. I just want to play occasionally and join the game from time to time if new plus update has improved antiradar. If not, it's just a waste of time to play with possible cheaters around. I will be missing old days when I used to play this game and was excited about it. Now it's just flamewars between everyone... even more than when we all used to be kids 10 years ago
I meant the resolution hack aswell,even tho i thought those 2 discoveries were done at the same time so are you telling me that the resolution hack got discovered recently but the ability to see further than 12 tiles was discovered long ago? and it wasn't reported?
"1)So assuming if warren discovered this only when a7med got "caught with cheating" then no one shouldn't have had any problems in the past with activating anti-radar on a7med without his notice"
no i mean warren discovered the resolution hack recently, not the 12 tiles of anti radar.
1)So assuming if warren discovered this only when a7med got "caught with cheating" then no one shouldn't have had any problems in the past with activating anti-radar on a7med without his notice
2)If i understand right and i apologize if i misunderstood but i think you answered that one question by yourself
"someone please correct me if im giving wrong information now. i was told the CURRENT antiradar would only send FALSE player locations, if the player is offscreen farther than 12 tiles. If he's less than 12 tiles outside of the 800x600 screen, the radar user would still see the correct player location. imagine having an extra "vision" of 12 tiles in all 4 directions. if that's true then the CURRENT antiradar is almost useless, imo. one would probably not see a big difference in a radar user's performance when the current antiradar is enabled/disabled."
someone please correct me if im giving wrong information now. i was told the CURRENT antiradar would only send FALSE player locations, if the player is offscreen farther than 12 tiles. If he's less than 12 tiles outside of the 800x600 screen, the radar user would still see the correct player location. imagine having an extra "vision" of 12 tiles in all 4 directions. if that's true then the CURRENT antiradar is almost useless, imo. one would probably not see a big difference in a radar user's performance when the current antiradar is enabled/disabled.
"was warren actually aware of the antiradar being bypassable since the start of this season" 1) afaik he found out about that possibility while trying to figure out how exactly a7med/pav might be cheating and that was not long ago. 2) how would a resolution hack bypass antiradar, if the server sends false player location data in the first place? afaik one wouldnt see correct offscreen player location in the increased screen size, when antiradar is enabled.
Cj, I disagree,the investigation itself is not what pushed plus team into developing a better anti-cheat mechanic,it was due to a report that antiradar could be bypassed
Also this could have gone in a different route where the plus team would have been informed before all of this drama could happen, instead the information was used as an excuse of why matches couldn't be played with antiradar,but of course,no one reported any issues with it until it was for their own benefit
But yeah, while i honestly do think this conflict caused much harm to this scene than it did any good,i have to say, by any means, please do try seeing if the new antiradar is going to change the gameplay of our members or not in the next season
A question that comes into my mind was that,out of all evidences,why was there no evidence that was investigated under antiradar? even if it was laggy,why no one actually tried running anti-radar behind their backs and see how that goes or was warren actually aware of the antiradar being bypassable since the start of this season and no one bother'd to actually turn it on? and if it's that so,why didn't anyone who investigated this did not bother to report this issue to the plus team in the first place if they really cared about cheating? assuming no one reported to the plus team due to the surprise it was put to their comments about this
The fact that there are servers on this game hosting derogatory levels with images of players' mutilated bodies, and other servers hosting levels of child-****ography-like imagery, is far more than enough proof that evidentially many people ought to evaluate the type of behavior that should be permitted in the context of JJ2.
In the context of a world where more than JJ2 exists, there would be more drastic consequences for publically providing "****ographic imagery levels" or "bodily mutilation imagery levels" and personally I think the fact that the setting where this takes place just means that people from JJ2 are reacting.
This argument is larger in scope than cheating at a game, actually moreso explainatory about my own frequent withdrawals from servers that host grotesque vulgarity or ****ographic imagery in the guise of a JJ2 level.
For other people who may have an attitude similar to mine, that's a repulsive display in this setting. There are other creative outlets where that format is somewhat more appropriate. Simultaneously if JJ2 becomes a game with a scene that I can expect this lack of public decency, I'm personally extremely intolerant and will tend to pursue avoidance.
Krzy getting bullied for 5 years is something he had asked for,if he behaved more nicely towards people he would have got more respect in return. justifying animal abuse over a picture that was send to someone under consent doesn't makes what he did much lower
Yes we can say that your both room are biased,but unlike you,we do not say we aren't biased and besides most of the comments in our room were about how intense, fun but at the same time stressful was the game
It's funny how you mention how much time it was wasted for them to make such a big evidence file,while they had a full team of detectives,we had only 2 people to debunk all of them in one night without sleeping
Catching slayer with radar is the effort that was put by none of the detectives mentioned, all the effort goes to an inactive player who had access to his kind of information,also in hakum's case his cheating was obvious,i believe,like hyperion,he admitted cheating,the difference is that one didn't got punished/investigated for that
also you do not play anymore cause a kid is made fun of his own relative for not knowing what he is talking about? the log is obsolete due to the fact that the owner of the server reported that he didn't received any ddosing activities
lazar was mostly the one who spoke up for pavlus other than that,no one was aware that we also had to speak up for him aswell
you indeed send logs of him in several chat rooms but no context was added to it,it was just there as an obscure "joke" we had no clue of
you are right about the behavior of this community tho,none of this toxicity would have happened if people played this game more nicely,same as how this would have also not happened if you really thought for a moment before nuking jjnet with drama,you killed the mood for everyone and now the scar is aleardy too deep
people retiring to left and right instead of playing CTF games and keeping this game alive
so what was the lesson learned here? that you shouldn't trust people anymore? that there are existing people who act nicely to you while they are saying that the game that is being played is pointless and it doesn't count,all the effort put by you during that match was at the potential of getting wasted on proofs that aren't not even solid as people try to imply
I thought I would simply abstain from this topic for good, but after having inspected the situation from a more third person view for a while, I think my thoughts are clearer now. Also, no worries moti! Like I stated in my newspost earlier, I decided to retire already long ago, which had nothing to do with this case.
People would naturally think that it's a waste of time to perform such investigations which in the end don't have any concrete effect, except for feeding conflicts between a number of people. I thought so too. But on a second thought, this investigation was very productive actually.
I mean first of all, most of us probably would have never learned about such technical details about JJ2+ that SE had to offer to us. Secondly, this was the decisive spark to finally push forward some improvements for many JJ2+ features, including antiradar improvements, for example. Finally, there has been progress towards fairer distribution and information share in the JJNet council, etc. including Shadow joining the council as one of the representatives. Not to mention any of the more subtle, positive changes for the community. Of course it wasn't all positive in the end, though.
So finally, I think this investigation was very helpful to change the status quo in many ways.
wow lahm, you got me talking finally having had witnessed bullying of my beloved son krzysiek which was ongoing for around 5 yearsssss, i believe, including his personal picture being edited and hosted as a level - i have no regrets rekting that cat for once. lets not try to measure what is low here, as indeed there are always two sides of the medal i appreciate your efforts making below composition, though, i wish i had enough of strenght to do ctrl+f and create similar of a7med quotes from every channel and other salty unneccesary provocative posts made by other memberos. you can clearly see our private chats being biased, i bet your private rooms just look the same.
as for the two deliquents accused of cheating - well, my brain personally could not comprehend with amount of material collected for the evidence, but bless the detectives who actually spent some time for this and all of you, just trying to do the right thing. i, however, have witnessed some dodgy **** myself, but who would bother to listen. the thing is, that there have been numerous of malicious activities which were ignored over the years and this includes quite a few more players - we all know, but we never said ay? i wont comment further a7med on this matter actually (but i do believe his hands are not clean), but would like to highlight that pavlus has history of using tools alongside with his cousin, so i appreciate how almost noone actually dares to speak up for these two.
catching slayer for radar, or even hakum for stupid unlimitted was just as controvential and required a lot of effort to gather some proof material - even though hakum black on white was submitting ladders with 50 ammo or blaster only and such, lol.
radar is not my concern here ever, because indeed, i dont even play anymore. but heres one of examples why: (my last copy pasta i cant help myself with)
[23:10:01] 1-/: sta je neko te rusi a [23:10:03] 1-/: pa kad pretis svima [23:10:04] 1-/: i treb [23:10:20] [SRB]Pav: pitam se ko hm [23:10:20] [SRB]Pav: I wonder who's doing it hmm [23:12:14] [SRB]Pav: samo jos 1 [23:12:18] [SRB]Pav: ima im ode pn [23:12:20] 1-/: koristi vpn [23:12:23] 1-/: ne lupaj [23:12:24] 1-/: ne mozes [23:15:50] [SRB]Pav: sad ga puko [23:15:54] [SRB]Pav: dao sam liku adresu [23:15:56] [SRB]Pav: ugasio ga [23:16:00] 1-/: sta xD [23:16:04] [SRB]Pav: sad ce vidis [23:16:07] [SRB]Pav: samo da me sinuje [23:16:12] 1-/: XD [23:16:13] [SRB]Pav: ugasio ovaj ceo server [23:16:13] 1-/: kako da ne [23:16:15] [SRB]Pav: si norm [23:16:23] [SRB]Pav: likse bavi krekovanjem masina [23:16:31] [SRB]Pav left the game [23:16:31] 1-/: ovo je jak server
[23:10:01] 1-/: What's up, someone is crashing you? [23:10:03] 1-/: That happens when you threaten everyone [23:10:04] 1-/: You deserve it [23:12:14] [SRB]Pav: Only one more time [23:12:18] [SRB]Pav: And PN is gone [23:12:20] 1-/: Use VPN [23:12:23] 1-/: Don't talk bs [23:12:24] 1-/: You can't [23:15:50] [SRB]Pav: now he's doomed [23:15:54] [SRB]Pav: I gave the address to my guy [23:15:56] [SRB]Pav: now he's done for [23:16:00] 1-/: what xD [23:16:04] [SRB]Pav: now you'll see [23:16:07] [SRB]Pav: he just needs to see my message [23:16:12] 1-/: XD [23:16:13] [SRB]Pav: he'll shut down this server [23:16:13] 1-/: yeah sure [23:16:15] [SRB]Pav: are you normal [23:16:23] [SRB]Pav: this guy knows how to crack machines [23:16:31] [SRB]Pav left the game [23:16:31] 1-/: this is a strong server
theres a few things everyone agreed on here so far: ladder sux paranoia feeds paranoia - noone at this point can trust one another - everyone's got horns and noone can feel any secure playing the game anymore
maybe none of the toxicity would be taking so much of its place here if everyone quit ****talking and being butthurt over the simple game - this is not league of legends or whatever - you all know this game is simple, lag, luck, a cheat aaaand a dos, and all that. learn how to lose and win and learn the line between the banter and flame. this community has such a potential, really, i dont know why all of us just tend to ruin it and pass our life frustration on one another and yeah i am talking also about myself. this has been happening past milion seasons and dear god, maybe we are just all pro, as omar says. so yeaah, instead of playing a blame-game forever - since everyones to blame atm - shall we just ALL take some lesson from it?
in the end i would like to sincerely apologise to sj - you did not deserve the flame ive given to you on pms, bless you and your heart for being under so much pressure trying to do the right thing dealing with all of us idiots; and to urbs for giving you some sort of pa (i dont even remember as my comments got deleted ) for childish reasons which were actually not personal at all; and actually, i do apologise to you a7med for your kitty, even if i say 'no regrets', i did feel bad since the first minute i went along with my rampage and posted it
Any further comments will now be graded on a scale of 1<->99 and judged accordingly. …The following commentarial criterions will be evaluated:
=-> Does the comment implicitly pertain to the topic of cheating in ladre by abusing radar? Does the comment explicitly substantiate radar abuse during ladre for the sake of cheating?
=-> Does the comment offer any potential resolution to the glaringly problematic radar allegations? Does the comment annotate if the radar took place in the future, the current, the past, or over any duration of time that maybe could include any of the aforementioned timeframes; or either a temporal instant, or duration, or a nontemporal period other than the future, current, and past?
=-> Does the comment deviate from the stationary goal of averting radar abuse to cheat during ladre? Does the comment ignore the topic to say mean things about others in the thread instead?
…Ladre points will also be formulaically provisioned for those clans whose players' comments receive grades. (An exemplary comment earning a grade of 99 would amount to 99 ladre points for the commenting clan: contrastingly, an malexemplary comment earning a grade of 1 would similarly amount to 1 ladre point.)
GpW's words : https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/713552814365999135/719745397899264010/unknown.png
CX's words : https://imgur.com/a/gsA6nNY
How about we also check CX's words about this matter ? Especially moti photoshopping blood onto a7meds cat and telling him his cat will die ( how low of a human being do you eve have to be to post such things? , very low apparently) + you might say that a7med said things on the CW channel but let's also not forget who triggered him there with the same comments you are posting right now , keep proving my point right by doing it
+On the same note , where exactly is Warren's recording of the finals ? Or should we forget that warren is the one who found the maxres abuse ? Is it just a coincidence.exe that the person who found the maxres abuse is the only person who didn't record his screen in the finals? Is it a coincidence that warren is the one who was able to replicate it in pna , the same server the final was played in?
Also where the is the recording of kris' screen on stronghold? Did that just go missing? I thought that everyone got thoroughly checked after those finals but how can you check kris if you dont even have his pov? hello? ( https://youtu.be/YkDinbPfwiI?t=5153 for moment in question)
Also just as a message towards the admins , deleting comments this time would be really stupid.
Gather round, kids. Settle down now. And no hitting. I'm going to tell you a story about the way that I would rather entrust our government to the first 400 people listed in the telephone directory than to clan GpW and its loyalists. For practical reasons, I have to confine my discussion to areas that have received insufficient public attention or in which I have something new to say. I undeniably hope that the truth will prevail and that justice will be served before clan GpW does any real damage. Or is it already too late? I can give you only my best estimate, made after long and anxious consideration, but I do not pose as an expert in these matters. I can say only that in the genesis of clan GpW's protests, aberrant begat odious, which begat adversarial, which begat loquacious. Still, I recommend you check out some of clan GpW's words and draw your own conclusions on the matter. Clan GpW's money-grubbing, intemperate beliefs are largely due to its drawing mistaken conclusions from what it wrongly takes to be evidence. What are the lessons for us in this? First, it's that we must bear this bitter truth coolly and soberly in mind. And second, other wily deadbeats loathe it. That said, they deserve it because they've never been able to reconcile their pious claims of upholding virtuous, patriotic, ordered liberty with their lust for fostering corruption and repression. The outcome of the struggle will ultimately be decided based on the number and influence of people fully informed about clan GpW's wheelings and dealings, committed to clan GpW's defeat, and organized under sound leadership. I know because I have experienced that personally. This makes me fearful that I might someday find myself in the crosshairs of clan GpW's gloomy squibs. (To be honest, though, it wouldn't be the first time.) Clan GpW has been telling everyone that violence directed at its detractors is morally justified. I would like to remind clan GpW that false words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil. All right; this letter is finally drawing to a close. If I have said anything that overstates the truth and indicates an unreasonable impatience, I beg you to forgive me. If I have said anything that understates the truth and indicates my having a patience that allows me to settle for anything less than speaking out against the hatred and incitement to genocide that lie at the heart of clan GpW's remonstrations, I beg God to forgive me.
Moti , if you want to actually do something productive in this drama instead of deciding to post comments that are meant to trigger other people how about you get a life considering you have not been involved in the competitive scene for about forever? The fact that you're commenting just proves how much CX has influenced you and how much **** you have been fed given you haven't played in so long. You think logging into discord and just hearing CX ( who just lost twice in a row in the finals against gpw) complain makes you understand what's going on? Let's face it , it doesn't. Use your own eyes. The facts are that literally if not all the evidence a7med got disproven because of the FOV difference that the spectator sees and the player sees. And yet , you keep accusing a7med of radar because you have nothing better to do . All things considered, as I told warren before anyway when he posted his stupid comment meant to trigger people ( both comments got deleted by admins! ), I really find it a coincidence that CX happened to ''encounter'' how to abuse maxresolution only when this a7med thing happened. The plus update(antiradar) happened around 4 years ago and let's put it like this : 4 years compared to the 1 month that you guys have been going after a7med sounds A LOT more likely that you found this and only reported it now when you saw the opportunity. As stupid as a7med can be sometimes , he is right in this case. How come that Hyperion who has literally admitted to radar in the past gets a free pass but someone like a7med who literally got accused of radar with ''evidence'' that got disproven is now hated by all of the biased people? How come I get punished for a stupid april fools joke and kyro who extends it further , and uses IRC to SPY on enemy team during a ladder( see a7meds post) and deletes comments that make him look bad ( AND ALSO DENIES IT AFTER + threatens a moderator that his ''trial period is expiring'') is still a JJNET ADMIN?
Lastly , I'd like to point out to you moti that in no way at all did a7med even come close to saying he did it . Maybe you need to get new glasses . Stop putting words into his mouth. What a7med said if you haven't understood yet ( maybe you need someone to explain it to you 2 times, I get it) is that he can get accused from retarded claims that got disproven in seconds but other people who are even worse than him don't get checked and he just gets told ''kk'' or ''record him yourself mate and get proof''. Let's be honest , even if such thing would happen , the biased people would just laugh at us and tell us to actually get real evidence ( i.e catching slayer with radar on his computer), the same thing that should've happened here but it did not . Let's put it this way, had this entire thing not been posted on jjnet and had they been asked to defend themselves , everything would have been fine. Instead , you basically made everyone but the biased people be done with this mess and made it so that most of them will not play ladders/etc ever again. I must say however that your decision to recruit new admins that are not biased is a decision I believe to be a good one.
there's plenty of sad pathetic losers on the internet but above them all stands those "detectives" that have been counting my RF non stop in the past few weeks in battle maps, how pathetic can this be, when I am getting ****tily accused with bunch of retarded "proofs" that were written for quantity over quality and reaching about 69 or more ****ing pdf pages about how i shoot rf at enemy offscreen,counting it as "evidence",giving instant ban without even telling us or mentioning it and then some people come and say jjnet not biased we have played a lot of games with antiradar on and pwned our opponents on, where were your detectives jjnet ? was gustaf busy eating swedish meatballs or getting pwned by youssef in scrapyard?
i also have seen a lot of bull**** moments from other players and asked jjnet admins to record them but all i got was ****ing pikachu surprised face
(ofc no actions were taken) you tell them you think someone might be cheating and they go ****ing surprised face no recording no single pdf page was written because its simple that its not on their favour they don't care who's cheating or not, they all care about banning gpw and they tried multiple ways before like "gpw ddos people" "people getting hacked in gpw server" and so on lame accuses like it always been but its jjnet! the platform which u can get banned if the crew thinks you are cheating because you are not on their favour while one of the headadmins holds the best record in jj2 of cheating some people over the years been cheating even CC with a legit evidence unlike what we see now as evidence for example:
CC cheating against Cx in a ladder using IRC bot but everyone ignored it ofc and deletes comments about it and they just happened to win that ladder season and egy won the whole NT while playing in camel servers proofs ? here you got your legit proofs unlike the pathetic one u stated above
a player from Cx showed that her clanmates were able to mess with max resolution all the time in puke nukem and she posted a screen of it but no actions were taken who knows for how long this been used and it explains their high ****ing stats and their timing scores
also some people literally admitted cheating and using radar and when i tried to report them all i got was "stop annoying him, admitting isn't a proof as soon as we cant prove it, it doesn't make any sense to make it a deal" like are you ****ing kidding me ?
"If anyone wishes to analyse the grand final in the same manner, and try to find similar moments from cx players (there aren't any lol). I would be happy to send you the full match with all 6 screens shown." yeah there are no suspicious moments when CX literally knew they were being observed and they were helping out. What a great argument. and there is no way we can know that they had no idea they were being tested earlier when you said they were. If you can jump to conclusions based on insufficient evidence then so can we. But no, you look at all the possibilities and just happen to go for the one that goes into your favor and everyone else is an idiot for trying to make you think a different way
PS: some pathetic ****s bragging posting screens of them beating me in duels months or even years ago and saying "oh yea a7med got beaten after he got caught cheating" i didnt play a single duel after this pathetic try-hard ban post.
go ahead jjnet admins delete my comment before people see it.
congratulations to A7med and fr for being called cheaters, there is no higher honor in any game, for the accusation "cheater" is acknowledgement of divine play.
as far as i can tell all the "evidence" is circumstantial, best piece i see is tony's testimony, ive thought much the same things playing vs pavlus, but still nothing u would not feel if you played vs jety, should we accuse jety of cheating for this? i dont, losing to jety i feel she cheats, so i watch her play, jety dont make any move that i couldnt do, its only better play then me. seeing all the "evidence" is only circumstantial i see no reason to assume pavlus different from jety. as for a7med being with this, a7med isnt even good, a7med is noob. like people saying O. J. sympson killed nicole. never happened.
"However, from nearly everything that has been reviewed thusfar (at least by me), they have written things that are pretty nonsensical, clinging to SE's explanations where they do not apply, or repeating the word chance for extremely bizarre successions of events."
@Rag , I didn't see you typed anything in that document tho. Or maybe 1 out of 42 pages that the document has, which makes me feel your plan never was to consider what we had to say. Giving us an opportunity to "dispute" the "evidence" was just a formality. In fact, you are not even taking seriously what we wrote there but you're posting gif's and troll in that document. So, if you're showing 0 respect behind the scenes, don't pretend you're showing some here. Thanks. Bye.
For lack of a better way of putting it; some of your clanmates have been given the chance to dispute the evidence. However, from nearly everything that has been reviewed thusfar (at least by me), they have written things that are pretty nonsensical, clinging to SE's explanations where they do not apply, or repeating the word chance for extremely bizarre successions of events.
Can you not jump to conclusions when you have no idea what you're talking about? Thank you.
Speaking about Naps words of putting yourself in their shoes. I had a dream last night in which I was falsely accused. They bound my hands and I was stuck in a small tent. It doesn't feel nice at all to be punished for something you didn't do. I desired to be treated with a perspective that leaves both options open (guilty or non-guilty) or that maintains the 'innocent until proven' mentality.
Its hard tor me to believe you guys are completely sure. In fact you guys re-evaluating your decision says enough. Also Im quite sure youll decrease a7meds sentence, cuz it doesn't make sense at all according to these rules. The evidence is really inconclusive. I could make a 6 minute video about all of you with suspicious moments. (For me especially a7meds video does not contain super suspicious footage)
This event also happens to be the third episode in a seemingly gpw-admins war. So as others have suggested, I recommend to do some self-inquiry and see to what extend you have been emotionally influenced by earlier events.
you guys have insufficient evidence you should not have to proceed this more further until you get clear picture whether if he is really hacking or not, everything I've seen so far is completely absurd I can't tell really if it's real or fake and also I wanna say that I agreed with seren and admins should really reconsider about this report.
Sry if it's out of subject but i'm really impressed by ur analysing skills and wanna hear your opinion about that since i have been listening to this for weeks nonstop
Note: this is a reply to gustaf's footage on a7med (basically the first link)
Clip 1: "a7med sees kris running above him to the right (4.07), last time. without being able to know where kris is"
If by "a7med sees krzy running ABOVE him" means that a7med suddenly shooting at both directions with a weapon that you usually use if your opponent is BELOW you,then i must fear that every random action i do must classify me as a cheater
"a7med shoots only TWO bullets (+1 rf jump) from 4.01-3.48 until he makes a sudden turn at 3.49, unloading a precise bouncer spam on off-screen kris. he even jumps away from the right wall, the exact moment kris starts appearing on his screen."
You can see a7med constantly switching directions until krzy finally comes towards him,it's not only that part when he does a sudden turn,he mostly at (4:01) then back again at (3:54) and (0:28) and back again and he jumps on above the spring to cover most of the area and then change direction again battle is not about running in circles,it's about being surprising,change of tactics and so on
Clip 2:
"1) 34.50: a7med sees kev going left and players go off-screen. a7med shoots only a small amount of ammo from 34.50-34.42, but then makes a turn and starts SPAMMING bnc on off-screen kev."
This time again,it was constantly done by a7med going clockwise and counter-clockwise,instead of going always into one direction and result into either both players run into circles or predictive gameplay
"34.35 players go off-screen. a7med sees kev going right and he goes to left c till 34.32. from this moment on he can’t consider himself to be safe any longer since kev could have turned and chased him left cuz he was 1-2h. the fishy thing in this scene is the amount and timing of ammo he shoots from here on:"
He could have died yes,probably even with radar,it only takes kev one turn to kill him,if he had radar,on contrary,he wouldn't probably take the risk,even if he has the upper hand,it takes only mutual injury to kill him which it has a high chance of happening and besides what's up with kev camping that spot all the time? wouldn't a7med just be like "oh i didn't die? he is still camping that spot right...?"
"2) 34.32-34.20: without being able to know where kev is, a7med shoots nothing but 4 seeker bullets while crossing the entire map horizontally, TWICE, but suddenly starts spamming rf at off-screen kev. before the rf spam on off-screen kev, the last time a7med saw kev was 15 seconds ago"
All i saw was a7med checking the toaster powerup and firing at the spring, a7med stops when he sees the bouncers and does a double jump,it's not really witchcraft to predict if the enemy is camping,even after he done it like almost the entire match
" 3) then he goes down and from 34.13 on he’s back to shooting minimal ammo but starts spamming rf at 34.07 knowing kev returned to the same spot even though he saw him 11 seconds ago, last time."
I saw him switching to seekers,rf,toaaster (at the bottom) in a direction completly opposite from kev and rf again at top,notice that he uses most of the time rfs at that part,sure you could argue that he could have switched to bouncers but well,i haven't ever seen a7med in the entire match shooting bouncers at that location,seem like a repetitive gimmick of his
clip 3
"a7med sees kev last time at UPPER CARROT (29.52) and doesn’t see him go right anymore, but makes a sudden turn + rf spam on off-screen kev at 29.49."
He does a sudden turn yes after he sees kev because he was running towards that side remember,spectators do not see that camera gimmick the players have he also shoots him with a minimal ammo,after he just took pu rf,if he knew he was there,why didn't he shoot pu rf?,why 1 damage instead of 2?
Also after a7med drops down,a7med could have only tried that since,in that area if the enemy goes behind you with rf it makes you the most vulnerable person right there
clip 4: "22.57: a7med collects seeker + bnc and starts shooting bnc as he’s falling down. This is a plausible action, covering the left space with bullets. But when kev approaches from below OFF-SCREEN, a7med switches to seek and shoots every seeker bullet he has (he had NOT ran out of bnc yet!). First of all shooting seeks there like this is far from optimal, as those bullets have a short distance. And second of all 1-2 seeks floating in the air would have been enough there to defend himself against kev coming from below, shooting them precautionary, as a7med could not have known Kev’s location, because a7med died 5 seconds ago (23.02). Instead he spams every seeker ammo he has, knowing kev is jumping up, making sure to hit him."
he did not run out of bnc however,he ran out of pu bnc,and nonpu bnc is not really the most reliable weapon to make sure the bullet goes down,it's not about radar,it's about covering the most area
clip 5:
"1) 8.48: leaving his camp spot after abt 20 seconds, when kris is approaching off-screen."
Didn't he just went for the toaster powerup specifically after having no ammo? and saw pavlus there and he was like "ok w/e he takes it " that could also be a anti-proof that a7med did not know that pavlus was at the powerup
"2) 8.41: encountering rag but already performing double jump back behind the wall when rag is still off-screen. Even though arrow and voicecomm warning by lazar (8.42) were possible, the timing of the backwards jump is perfect."
Indeed,it was after he saw pavlus covering the toaster powerup but then he didn't saw the other powerup up there so he just kinda went away from enemies' base which you shouldn't really stay there
"3) 8.31: going back down, staying opposite to rag and warren who just came up on the right side" maybe he thought lazar was an enemy and ran away,it did seem like it
clip 6)
"3.18: making sudden turn to avoid kris, who started approaching him off-screen 3.17: hesitating to go down, because rag is coming up, off-screen 3.16: jumping above off-screen rag to escape"
He just jumped into krzy's bullet but if he had radar couldn't he could have just hit rag if he knew he was there and go down without risking to get hit?
clip 7)
"avoiding both off-screen hunters: starts camping at 6.10 and escapes warren at 6.05. notice he can’t just go down because rag is there."
That could be a coincidence,when he goes down he doesn't goes for running away from warren and rag,he went to the toaster powerup that was just spawning,meaning that he was controlling it, he manages to dodge rag there but not warren
clip 8) "camps at one spot but dodges off-screen rag at 2.58. a warning by voicecomm from pavlus in 1 second is too unrealistic."
He did camp at one spot and then he saw a seeker,he went down because honestly,why would someone camp there,so he goes to check carrots and he sees rag onscreen after rag drops down
clip 9)
Anyways both fighters seems to be aware of faw camping c, think about it like this,a flagholder... is camping c..why? maybe because he is low?,yes and both fighters knew the enemy's spot so it's more likely a7med just said that he is 1 because a low fighter would camp the carrot,he didn't die,after a7med shot rfs at him,now assuming that a7med knows the carrot's time,a7med could have just assumed the e is 1 since the carrot might have not spawned yet and besides even he did he could have just typed e1 by accident instead of e2,but,how did he know it hit him? theres one thing that SE stated and it actually connects to this,spectators aren't seeing a player's screen if they are running at a certain speed,basically,a7med indeed saw faw getting hit On-SCREEN,and from the speed of the rf it's obvious that a7med gained maximum momentum off them enough so he can see where faw is
Clip 10)
It could be just a typo,he probably meant e1,typos may happen all the time,even tho i never thought i'd ever see the day of someone getting banned because of a typo which turned out to right
Conclusion is:i get that it's easy to ban people just because you can freely point around fingers by using their luck moments against them (which in the would turn into their unluck lol) but to even claim that these are legit proofs without thinking about them objectively or not even talking about how it COULDN'T happen is not the way people should judge something that can potentially ruin someone's jj2 career and of course affects the way this competitive scene can go
but i guess you cannot treat this matter seriously and more objective because it's not YOU that it's been accused,atleast try to put yourselves under that person's shoes and imagine how it is to get accused for something you didn't done and with the lack of proofs,punished just for speculation and the opinion of the staff,you don't need to have radar in your computer to get banned,people can just pretend you have it
I would like to thank the team who collected the evidence, evaluated them and is now re-evaluating. There has been more work then people might think. As an head admin and founder of this site, I do stand by them so far.
I hope that we can enjoy playing this game without cheats.
I also would like to show my appreciation to the team behind JJ2+ for showing some interest in making the anti-cheats more robust.
@Toni: while I stand by what I said in that message, and don't mind it being shared per se, I think it's pretty rude to post a message I sent to you privately (this is a J2O PM) here.
I wanted to stay out of drama about cheating, but I have to tell that I am convinced that people cheated even before... In our training game vs SRB A a few weeks ago I literally knew that Pavle was using some cheats. He knew EXACTLY where I was. He was hunting me from left to right and trapped me between the platform with guns. Wherever I went, he was there to close my exit. That lasted around 30 seconds and I was sure he knew where I was all the time. Not to mention his stats and camping without shooting ammo when there is nobody close to him. I talked to Hordy in private and he agreed with me that Pav is suspicious but we had no proof. Now we have.
About JJ2+ team - I want to thank you for your contribution to JJ2 game, for all the effort you put in this ''dying game'' (quoting JJ2+ team member) and this is all really honest.
But about JJ2 anticheats - shut up everyone and stop defending JJ2+ team when they showed almost no interest in making an anticheat when I sent them the source code of a cheating program years ago.
https://i.imgur.com/62TExtu.png
Even other JJ2+ team member told me in JJ2 server that he (and others) are more interested in fixing singleplayer bugs because multiplayer is dying... years ago. Which provided false speaking now, around 5 years after that talk.
That is literally the thing what made me stop being really active in JJ2. I showed up just occasionally for nostalgia and to feel the fun I had before.
This is not an attack to JJ2+ team, this is just my point of view and I am not lying. I am just saying that JJ2+ team had nobody who would want to develop a good and working anticheat to prevent cheaters and not limit the fun for spectators
- Yes, but that doesn't give you a hell of an edge to be able to swiftly react to offscreen players the way they do. Moreover, there are plenty of moments where both stay stationary for a period of time when literally there's none nearby but as soon as a hunter approaches they react perfectly 2s-ish right before it so that wouldn't be even the case here. - Nice one, but I myself have tried relying on that but it's always inefficient because if you are camping a certain spot while being somewhat at minimal speed and that's sort of the case for A7med you'd swiftly get outrun by a hunter spamming RF from a direction with max speed, LET ALONE the relatively high ping he has so he barely has that advantage on his side. - Blaster exists for a reason, could also use this now: https://youtu.be/x-pDG8q5Bdo?t=1555 - For the next two points: Well if you really insist you might as well just watch the entire videos of A7med's gameplay in Triton and should subsequently observe: a. An astronomical moments count where he whenever attempts to hunt he's almost always aware of the way to go and with the appropriate weapon in accordance with the opponent's whereabouts. b. A plenty of cases where he perfectly manages to avoid being on intercept routes where he would directly get hit and that's the case when he's really low on HP. - TBF, some could follow that but on the contrary there are these moments where enemy flagholder HP simply didn't get reported when they got hit and despite that their HP was reported perfectly, so I'll stay neutral about this.
To be clear, I am not pointing any fingers at the JJ2+ team. Blur back in the day had 0 interest in such things, but the current team has been consistently helpful in introducing features that are useful for JJNet games, /antiradar is proof of that, and there has been much support for features we introduced via mutators.
Edit: Like I said, if you or Urbs, maybe Naps, want to get involved, you're welcome to. Personally, I would even consider Artegor, but that would cause way too much drama.
I'm sorry for going off on you so much just now, Shadow. It was uncalled for. I'm not a fan of removing or editing my comments afterwards though to make me look better, so I'll just let them remain.
Even if it's just blocking one way to possible cheat, I see it as anti-cheat form.
Yes, as a headadmin at ClanBase and ESL we had a counsel of top 10 clans representing. Some games had a bit more like CounterStrike. JJ is a small enough community to represent all clans. It saved so much unnecessary drama and whining. Especially with cheating/rules changes.. admins like you are just human.
Keeping the irons ironic, ironically I've misjudged you aswell.
Just want to jump in here and say that antiradar can of course be updated for a new plus version. For example SJ recently noted that it was annoying that spectators weren't able to see players' health and that has been taken up as something to make optional.
If there are other suggestions like that just bring them up and we can talk about it. JJ2+ is not a static thing you have no influence on and if there are aspects of antiradar that can be improved that is definitely something that can be worked on.
You're the only one who mentioned 'anti-cheating programs'. SE did no such thing.
Yes, the point about Snook was just a joke.
You often draw on your wealth of experience as a pro-player on other games. Tell me, was it common that every team involved in a league had an admin? Or did you just pull that principle out of thin air?
That said, we might actually have to enforce /antiradar now despite all the problems it causes for ***players*** (somehow you read past this word last time) and viewers, because people can't trust their opponents anymore.
About confirmation bias, maybe I'm misjudging you. Perhaps you actually did take the time to review the evidence in detail and look through if SE's points, while true in principle, are actually applicable to the situations before you spoke. Otherwise it's very ironic.
Ofcourse it's confirmation bias, you are smart enough to see that yourself in this case.
Snook isn't even in your chat, just supports this site. Has nothing to do with base operations of the ladder right? Not that it matters, ill discuss if someone willing to put spare time into this. I think it's a good thing. Thanks for offering that.
Is SE telling lies here about anti-radar? I don't believe that, anti-cheat should always be priority over spectators 'enjoyment' anyday.... Or put some community focus on it to fix this.
Shadow, why are you latching on to it before you've taken the time to evaluate it, all the while speaking of 'confirmation bias'?
The reason you don't have any admin is that all your old members are inactive. Among the active ones, they are relatively new or have already had a radar story (Artegor/Pavle) before. If an older member like you, Urbs, or Kenny want to be involved, that's another story altogether.
Actually, I just checked your player list, however, and apparently you're technically actually well-represented in [GpW]Snook.
Your talking about 'anti-cheating programs' shows that you have no idea what you're talking about, because there aren't any. There is a feature in JJ2+ called /antiradar, but it never caught on because the issues with it ruined the fun for both players and spectators.
It's a fair point that A7med shouldn't be punished as harshly as Pavle, since this is his first time, but Pavle's second (if I remember correctly that there was actually any action taken last time).
Thanks for your unbiased opinion SE, this changes the story for me.
I haven't mangled with GPW business in JJ2 since 2004, I gave this responsability to Newspaz and Urbs back then. But I do have a thing to say from my perspective.
The members are being put on non-active status (instead of a kick from the clan), this after reading SE's comment, because it starts to look like confirmation bias. Instead of detective work.
But I'm absolutely baffled that anti-cheat programs aren't mandatory. I'm also suprised that the punishment doesn't confirm with the ruling and older punishments.
Also other clans have representitive in the admin crew and GPW is pretty much on-existant there.
With that said, I'm not sure if GPW has a future on this platform if things don't change up.
Season 18 will represent all active clans in their crew. One way or the other.
I support the full transparency of this announcement and the documents that came with it. I'd like to ask a few questions that I hope you'll answer in the spirit of transparency.
Did your detectives know that: - your field of view is larger in the direction you're running and spectators don't see that (this covers about half of all claims in the main document); - off-screen RF explosions are audible; - players fire ammo less often if they're running out of it; - always going to the carrot that's the next one to spawn is not the winning strategy in battle mode; - seeing that your opponent is not present where you expected them to be can be used to extrapolate that they went somewhere else; - flag holders who are camping a carrot are probably low on health; - it's possible to remember health of a player from before they captured a flag, especially when you're the one who last hit them and they didn't die nor had any way of healing in between?
The list of matches you found suspicious incidents in is pretty impressive! How many did you actually analyze before you found the ones that seem to match your hypothesis? What evidence to the contrary did you take into account?
The statistic about A7med spamming RFs is very cool. Who was in the control group and how did they do in comparison? Did you find that most of the time they had no clue where their opponent is in a 100x50 level?
Why was anti-radar not enabled during such important matches as clan wars?
What did A7med and pavlus say about the incidents you list? How did they defend themselves before you banned them?
What was the reasoning behind the period of 2 years that was chosen for both players' bans? According to the website's anti-cheating policy this is the longest possible period of punishment reserved only for repeat offenders. Were both players already previously banned for a period of one month for previous offenses? In comparison, when RL clan members were proven beyond any doubt to be using radar, they received 2-month bans, with a 1-year ban for SlaYer for previous offenses.
If anyone wishes to analyse the grand final in the same manner, and try to find similar moments from cx players (there aren't any lol). I would be happy to send you the full match with all 6 screens shown.
I had no clue about the cheating part but I knew they were controversial players who are hated by most of the community. So that's on me and I apologize for allowing them to prosper.
Again, I stand by the tone and the message of the original comment, if you can't live with that then that's really not on me.
That's not what i meant by that. What i meant is that you came across as extremely insincere. You took no responsibility by not saying people who've been in your clan shouldn't have done that,nor said you're sorry for cheating that came from your clan since that's not what you wanted out of your clan.
Instead your comment makes you look as if you're just placing blame on everything and everybody else so you don't have to take any responsibility. I didn't say that to spite you(though i'm honestly feeling a bit of spite right now.) or anything like that, what i'm saying is it doesn't seem like you're getting your point across the way you wanted it.
Fine, no problem King, I can definitely apologize. It won't help anybody much, but since this whole mess warranted such an investigation and we were in the middle of it, I apologize for the mess that was caused. But I stand by the other points.
As being more or less inactive these things, together with the ddos accusations from 2 weeks ago came as a bit of a surprise. We have discussed these issues with SJ and Gry and I guess that that is all we can say. I would like to make two points which I had made to Gry and SJ privately and I would like to make them public as well.
On the issue of evidence:
When I was first contacted about this issue, one day ago (which I will never completely forgive everybody who's been involved in this), I had hoped for something akin to technical evidence. I'm not familiar with JJ2+ infrastructure, but I had hoped that the evidence would be completely clear cut, that there would be a digital trace of these events. Instead I was given an overwhelming amount of video coupled with an interpretation. Now, to be fair, in complex real life situations it is often the case that bonne hommi (good people, might have got the spelling wrong) decide based on some arbitrary, but usually well founded rule whethere or not a person is guilty or not. And this is how I choose to interpret this situation, because I want for the ladder to be competitive and clean in the future as well (even though it's now only a 2 way race between t3 and CX).
That being said, our brains are incredibly powerful tools and they are incredibly good at rationalization, we do it sub-consciously all the time. And we are also full of biases. Couple these two qualities and add a tendency of our brains to overfit on historical data (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting ) and one can basically analyze any given set of data to conform to a pre-conceived belief. But this is part of who we are and if we are being completely honest, even if this punishment was merely a consequence of spite, one does have to wonder at least to some degree, about why one is perceived in such a negative way by most of the community (i.e. if you act like a jerk, there will eventually be a reaction). Now to the second issue.
On how this whole affair was handled:
Perhaps more important than the first point is how this whole process had been set up from the begining. The team collecting this evidence had been gathering it up for over a year. In this time SJ had actually met me in person and didn't bring up this point even though he must have been already very suspicious. Perhaps he was just being gracious - again, for now it is my intent to interpret this set of actions as well-meaning. Now you can't tell me that spending time gathering haphazard evidence is more important than actually working out the kinks in the infrastructure thereby making sure that the league is legit. Now we get retroactive punishments and everybody hates each other's guts, well played boys.
Furthermore, if you had suspicion about GpW players, would that not warrant a council decision to use antiradar for official matches, or at least of clanwars? How the hell is that not enforced? When the UFC (big mixed martial arts org) decided to clean up its act it did not do so by taking away achievements from the past just because some fighter (Overeem was calle Ubereem due to steroids) had been using certain enhancements (allegedly), no, they made a deal with USADA (think antiradar in our example) and made sure that if you want to fight you need to conform to strict testing.
Did the fighters like having to deal with USADA? No, they did not. But they had to suffer through it for the sake of competitive integrity. So you don't like antiradar? tough luck. Instead this was almost like a situation of entrapment, where our competitors and the council were basically fine with a whole season worth of games being played even though they supposedly knew that GpW had been cheating. And even if they didn't at the time, even if they had just suspected it, they should have employed preventive measures. That would also have served as an experiment, now wouldnt it? When we played vs Slayer with antiradar, they lost. You could have done something similar. Instead our brand name will never be the same again.
And again, while nobody was under any obligation to say anything, somebody from the council could have voiced some concern so that I could have at least done some basica utilitarian calculus: do I trust SJ and Gry to be right in this matter and therefore kick the 2 players or do I go for the possibility of three-peat. As it is, agency was given to the council.
Oh and of course GpW does not condone cheating and I absolutely abhor radar use. That being said, I was never the tech guy in this community developing these things or using them, something which maybe even some of the players giving the verdict cannot really claim for themselves. Even if it was just to understand what's out there.
https://www.pukenukem.com/jjscreens/Jazz0020.png
it's a good thing you fall into the bias of pointing out GpW's flaws when your clan has done worse things .. but let's leave it like that.
