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The new season! 2012-04-17 01:58 | Grytolle
Good evening sportsfans!

After due consideration we (in order of appearance DanZeal, myself, Warrior, SJ and JJB) have decided to make quite some major changes for the upcoming season. Precisely because those changes are quite big, you will have a few days to let it all sink in and to voice your concerns or objections.

If no shit storm breaks loose, the new season will start on Saturday (21th April).

For obvious reasons, this newspost will have to be quite lengthy, so please bear with me. Let’s start things off easy though with some rather minor changes:

-There will indeed be three awards this season (gold, silver, bronze)

-The TB-ladder will be turned into a ladder for all game modes except CTF. The Worrier Commission has created rules and mappools for Jailbreak, Flag Run and Domination. Other game modes are allowed too, but are harder to arrange, as they don’t have any standard rules at this times.

-If anyone wants to design a new logo, they are welcome to have a go at it, but there is no contest as such. It would be nice to get a new logo for the old TB ladder though, as it now features other game modes too.

Furthermore, some changes, like formalizing the coin flipping procedure have been made, but those who are interested in knowing everything at once can just read through the rules. No point in boring everyone with it at this time.

Now for the important changes to the CTF ladder:
-There is now a rule which requires you to say “STOP” before you use /stop in a game. Read it carefully in the rules section for details. This rule will disappear as soon as some coder creates a /cstop solution (even if it should be a client side one).

-You will now get two points when you win a ladder match, one when you tie it, and none when you lose it.

-The new season will use a variation on Robee’s idea: Once a clan reaches 200 points, the tables will be frozen (=no more ladder matches or clanwars are allowed), and the four first clans will be invited to take part in a short play-off tournament. See the rules page for further details.

-JJB and a mathwiz friend of his have designed/are almost finished designing a new points formula for clanwars. I don’t understand the details myself, but in essence it has two parts. The main part can earn you up to 40 points in a clanwar, depending on the point difference between the two clans in the ladder ranking. The second part (the scoring bonus) lets you earn up to five additional points by beating the other clan by a lot. You can read more about the formula here.

-The clanwar refusal rules have been altered. You may refuse all clanwars until you reach 40 points. After that you may refuse clanwars vs. higher ranked clans, but you may never refuse clanwars vs. lower ranked clans. See the rules for details.

-The punishments with regards to refusals have been made more logical. If you do refuse a clanwar, you will lose the same amount of points as you would if you lost the clanwar by playing it, but the other clan won’t get any points. If you have a clanwar planned, but don’t show up, you will lose points as if the clanwar were played, but the other clan will only gain a few points.

-Please take note of the change date button, which can be used for clanwar challenges instead of refusing them. Clans are very much encouraged to make arrangements over msn or similar, however, and edit the date/make the challenge accordingly.

-The mappool has been changed. See the rules page. See this sheet for the votes.

Lastly, I would like to ask our more concerned users and admins that took part in the decision making to read through the rules and point out if I forgot to mention anything of importance in this newspost. Proofreading is welcome too, of course (but please making one new forum thread for it, in that case).

By the way, JJB is an admin now, and I'm confident confident that he will be heartily received by you!
2012-04-20 21:59 
useless comment
2012-04-20 15:17 
Btw, i just noticed the battle ladder's theme is red xd so there are two varations of the logo (red and blue)

2012-04-20 11:50 
That's just how confident he is! emo

@Mac: Anubis is right, public or private shouldn't matter here, as the compiled code has to be included in the executable either way. Though this particular case (autochatting) is not really a security threat, other functions (maybe in other programs) could be.

The best way to solve this imo is indeed an OS level sandbox, maybe optional so you can still do stuff like this, but 'secure' programs like banking software could call an OS-API function to be placed in a sandbox.
2012-04-20 08:55 
You wrote "confident" twice in the last sentence, which is nothing but a minor writing mistake.
2012-04-19 22:30 
2012-04-19 21:27 
To point something out:

By the way, JJB is an admin now, and I'm "confident confident" that he will be heartily received by you!

2012-04-19 21:23 
@ Mac:
It doesn't matter whether the function is private or not in this case, because wKtK calls the function by its address ("no more calling it by name", as he said). In this case the "If you can't name it, you can't touch it" policy doesn't work anymore because the chat function's address is also visible to the thread he created in Jazz2's memory. Automatic chat is possible in many programs so I doubt it can be considered a security issue.
2012-04-19 20:19 
Yeah I spent a few hours rewriting them
2012-04-19 19:42 
Rules apparently have been edited, they look way more organized now and they are much more clear.
2012-04-19 17:49 
Of course it does clear things up, wKtK. Thank you. Now I wonder whether this method "chat" is declared public or private (or protected, of course). I'm still on the way of understanding such things despite my minor field of study. If you write the chat content into the memory allocated by JJ2, I wonder whether this is a security issue by JJ2 (solvable through declaring the chat method private), or by Windows (solvable through sandboxing). Dunno, but nobody's interested in that here anyway.
2012-04-19 17:21 
No idea.
2012-04-19 16:43 
Might as well let them vote for TB maps too now, yeah.
Anyway, what about declining clanwars cause of possible radarv2 usage? There's no anti cheat yet.
2012-04-19 16:37 
Hey, please let us vote for new maps in the TB mappool and add the minmay JB levels that DZ asked me to suggest, thanks! emo
2012-04-19 15:21 
@Vegito: I understand. If DZ doesn't want more (untrusted) admins, then a report system will be fine too.

@Mac: Ok, here it is:

Most programs contain functions. These functions are pieces of code that can be executed to do something that is needed at more than 1 place. Jazz2, for example, has a 'Chat' function.

You can give a function data, called a parameter. So it's 'Chat(text to chat)'

When you compile a program, the function is stored at an address in memory. So no more calling it by the name. Thats why one does not simply call Chat in Jazz2.

To use the chat function, you must create a thread (which is something that executes code) in the process of Jazz2, and pass it the location of the function in memory.

However, Jazz2 has no access to our programs memory. Because of that, we can't simply give our data (the text to chat) to the thread. We need to write it to Jazz2's memory, and then tell the thread we make to pass that data, now in Jazz2's memory, to the function.

Then the thread is executed, calling Jazz2's Chat function with the text we wrote to Jazz2's memory. This results in the Jazz2 client chatting the desired text, such as '/stop' in this case.

Hope that clears it up a bit. emo

Edited: 2012-04-19 15:22 by wKtK
2012-04-19 12:56 
Zeal business automatically adds another dimension we've discussed a lot of times before. The "Trustee" rank means something. The trustees are, indeed, TRUSTED by DZ. You can't just get trustee cause you're from a different clan/cause you or the community wants it or decides so.

The last time there was a major discussion DZ ended up taking the Zeal server down for some time. The Zeal server is in DZ's hands, it's his project and not in the communities hands may it sound rude. The community can however make use of the servers.

Also, I don't think much has gone wrong regarding admins lately - there are way less admins than before and way less (or no) kicks are being given at all lately. That said, apparently there aren't enough kicks now (which I prefer hearing than the previous discussion). Mostly because a lot of players lost the trustee rank, power admin rank or got demoted to moderator cause of the last discussion. The community was angry - DZ took action and now there aren't enough admins anymore.

A report-abuse system? Sure. It doesn't always mean something can be done but usually yes. Just contact me at MSN about a cheater in whatever Zeal server and I'll mannerhammer.
2012-04-19 12:54 
Thank you wKtK. I really meant the last one. emo It's ok though if it takes more time than expected to explain.
2012-04-19 12:47 
"Nice changes, finally teams won't play for a tie, i hope more teams will agree for a third level after the same result"
Sounds like they might as well be happy with a tie still.

"but as usuall, VS, t3 and CC have more than one admin here, but GpW, ib, aEs, CDF and Cx dont have anyone. (I don't count assistants or DZ) You have a lot of good candidates for example Robee, Urbs, MS or Rag."
DZ should count. That's CDF.
GpW: Urbs not interested
aEs: Lithium is on his way
Cx: Is still new, but I agree that Rag is a decent candidate.
iB: Also a new clan, but Robee was getting phased in once. Then... through no fault of his own (xd) we lost faith in him.

"If you wanna be fair you should make from everyone clan someone who can kick idlers, make clan training for clan and repair or add old unverified matches. "
Kicking idlers, making clan trainings are Zeal business, not really related to jjnet adminship. You can discuss that with DZ. If he won't comply, try Glados so you an use Steel.

Reparing or adding old unverified matches is a non-issue, especially since you're not supposed to do that for your own clan anyway.
2012-04-19 12:22 
Ofcourse emo

As you know, plus commands work by chatting a command (duh xd)
My program simply chats '/stop', causing the jj2+ command to be activated.

If you meant the commands I implemented, the program checks if jj2's chatstring matches a text.

If that's what you want to know, I hope it helps. If you meant how I chat in jj2 without emulating keypresses or stuff, I can explain but it's a long story and most of the work on discovering that was done by others.
2012-04-19 11:51 
(sorry, unexpected double post for no reason)

Edited: 2012-04-19 11:52 by Mac
2012-04-19 11:51 
Agreed on what wKtK said.

If you hesitate giving admin rights to "normal" users, I could also imagine some sort of a "central call system" in which you could give a notice to admins about who did what in which server (sth like "Player G cycled during a match in ZD1"emo. Then, an admin would come asap and correct everything again.

Btw wKtK: you simply rock! I'm really curious on how you implemented firing commands directly in jj2 from an external program. Would you mind revealing that "secret"?
2012-04-19 11:23 
I agree, but not only for jj.net

I often played matches in ZA only to be annoyed by cheating n00bs. Having some more ppl who could kick and maybe temp. ban cheaters wouldn't hurt.

Let's hear the others thoughts on this.

Edited: 2012-04-19 11:24 by wKtK
2012-04-19 11:10 
Nice changes, finally teams won't play for a tie, i hope more teams will agree for a third level after the same result but as usuall, VS, t3 and CC have more than one admin here, but GpW, ib, aEs, CDF and Cx dont have anyone. (I don't count assistants or DZ) If you wanna be fair you should make from everyone clan someone who can kick idlers, make clan training for clan and repair or add old unverified matches. You have a lot of good candidates for example Robee, Urbs, MS or Rag.

Edited: 2012-04-19 11:25 by slayeros
2012-04-19 00:15 
First quick and not thoroughly tested version of the cstop command:

2012-04-18 18:46 

I am quite sure he was, but now he certainly is
2012-04-18 15:57 
I'm not promising anything, but i might whip up a small windows /cstop program this or next week.

Also, congratz on your adminhood, jjb emo
2012-04-18 15:11 
Btw, JJB might be an admin.. Just saying he actually isn't an admin at the site yet..
2012-04-18 14:31 
nvm xd

Edited: 2012-04-20 15:16 by Robee
2012-04-18 13:54 
Anyway you can find out the points by looking at all clans played matches as well.
2012-04-18 12:48 
Oh ****. I f forgot to save the tb ladder scores..i made a backup though so I can fix it when I get home emo
2012-04-18 11:24 
The TB ladder points have been reset. I assume CDF won the TB ladder as it was leading since the ladders' existance imo about 2 years ago.
Since there are going to be multiple gamemodes it will be entirely different from what it was so I think we have to start fresh now.
2012-04-18 10:39 
Maybe Semi needs to be altered slightly as the PU placement is a bit flawed, and the ammo boxes do not spawn all the time (though that is a JJ2 webcoding bug).

The map is mostly fine, especially in 3vs3 though.

Edited: 2012-04-18 10:40 by ThunderWalker
2012-04-17 22:24 
Semi might not be perfectly balanced, but other levels in the mappool are definitely worse. emo
2012-04-17 22:10 
The seek pu - especially in 3v3 - is actually to the red teams advantage if you control well enough emo. I prefer red over blue cause of that. The spawn position is hardly annoying except for in duels.

§15 If one clan for some reason can't continue the game, they have 10 minutes to find replacements. If they are unsuccessful in doing so, it is up to their opponents to decide whether they want to claim a forfeit win or not. They are within their full right to do so, but should keep in mind that it can be harmful for clan relations and not really worth it in what is supposed to be a friendly game. Submitting a tie is allowed, provided that the score in indeed tied. The choice remains completely with the team entitled a to a forfeit win. You are entitled to a forfeit win even if you are behind 39-0 when the other team runs out of players. It is possible to finish a round with too few players in the server (=1vs2, 2vs3, 1vs3, …), but not to start a round like that.

The last part, about the uneven players.. Please make sure that no players "start" a match 3v3 but want to play a 2v3 instead so player 3 of one team "has to go" within 5 seconds after start emo
2012-04-17 21:52 
Okay then, I'll elaborate...

Blue has a start pos where they can rush to get the red flag. Red doesn't have a rush start pos. You can also more easily control the seeks and bnc PU and be close to scoring spot as blue. I'd say powered bouncers are slightly stronger than powered RFs.

It's not about symmetry I'm talking about here.

Of course imbalanced maps are playable, they just necessarily aren't as fair for the other team.

Edited: 2012-04-17 21:54 by Treylina
2012-04-17 21:48 
both teams can easily win?
I'd call that well balanced.

Unless by balanced you mean symmetrical. In which case a lot of jj2 levels are unbalanced and a lot of the best levels are unplayable at the competitive level. Which I don't think is true.

Edited: 2012-04-17 21:50 by [GpW]Urbs
2012-04-17 21:47 
Semi..."well balanced level" emo
2012-04-17 21:36 

It's all on the rules page... (menu on the left of the page)
2012-04-17 21:34 
dude semi is a well balanced level with few parts where you'd be highly susceptible to airs, why would u want to take it out?

And it was hardly overplayed in the last season.
Our team spammed WW like hell (didn't vote against it cuz of iust though emo ).

EDIT: great changes on all fronts, really good job the admins!
Ever onwards emo emo emo

Edited: 2012-04-17 21:39 by [GpW]Urbs
2012-04-17 20:55 
I had the impression that the ladder overlords do not want Semi out.... but well, there's Atom Heart and DoS to pwn noobs on, so I guess you don't actually mind...
2012-04-17 20:49 
a sory, mam
2012-04-17 20:31 
jb* ;/;/
2012-04-17 20:30 
im looking for that jjb etc mappool too emo
2012-04-17 20:01 
Thanks for voting for removing semi aEs! OH WAIT YOU PUSSIED OUT emo

Also, no minmay levels in the JB pool? Plain stupid.
2012-04-17 19:48 
So, even though I don't play ladders, where can you find the JB/DOM/FR mappool?
2012-04-17 19:43 
§16 If you need to stop the game, write “STOP” (or “CTO” when stopping for someone else) before you write “/stop”. Failure to do so will lead to the opposing team getting one free score (using /redscore or /bluescore). Other warnings are not valid. You are very much encouraged to explain your stop as soon as possible, like “STOP; /stop; gtg” or “STOP; /stop; brb sry” or “CTO; /stop; blackrose cto”.

Players should be notified about this one to avoid flamewars during ladders.

GL to everyone in the new season! There is stuff I don't like in the new rules, but at least most of the suggestions made it in.
2012-04-17 19:23 
Don't miss this one!
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